Posted by BLT/TX on 6/1/08 1:03pm
Msg #249608

The Closing From Hell

Good afternoon fellow notaries, I am a big time lurker of this forum. This is my first posting. I'm looking for your thoughts on this email I intend to send the signing co regarding a closing I did yesterday. A penny for your thoughts! (I redacted some info for privacy)

[signing co],

On Saturday, May 31, 2008, I arrived at Mr. Borrower's home in CITY, STATE to perform the closing. The following is a recap of events:

SUMMARY OF EVENTS

1. Soon after arriving for the 1:30pm closing, I noticed that the lender docs (Note, Deed of Trust, etc.) were absent from the package. When I realized this, the Borrower insisted on calling his LO to inquire about the missing docs. I then called you to inform you of the problem. The LO thought his assistant may have accidentally left the Lender docs out of her initial transaction and offered to add an additional $50.00 on the fee for the oversight. You then wanted to check your records to see if this mistake was possibly made by [signing co]. Upon further review, you realized that this was an oversight on the part of [signing co] and that somehow the docs did not upload to your site properly. I informed the LO that it was [singig co's] oversight and ensured him not to worry, that we would get everything straightened out.

2. I was prepared to drive all the way back home to [CITY, STATE] (@ 50 miles) to print the docs that were missing, then drive back to Mr. BORROWER's home in [CITY, STATE] to complete the signing. However, Mr. Borrower suggested that we go to his office (@ 15 miles from his home) to print the docs instead. So, we headed over to Mr. Borrower's office. By this time, it is approx. 2:30pm.

3. To speed things along, I asked Mr. BORROWER to go ahead and sign/date the areas where I had highlighted on the previously printed package while I uploaded and printed the 80 or so pages of the Lender's package. (MR. BORROWER had access to a fairly slow printing laser printer).

4. After printing the missing Lender docs, I went back over the docs I had asked MR BORROWER to sign and noticed that he had dated the entire package (@ 56 pages) 8/31/08, instead of 5/31/08. By this time, it is about 3:10pm - mind you I need to drop this package at FedEx by 4:00PM for delivery on Monday. I inform MR. BORROWER that this may cause a problem, advised him to strike through each 8/31/08, write 5/31/08 and initial the new date and to also initial the strike through. We then proceeded to sign the rest of the package and completed the closing at @ 3:45pm.

5. I called you to inform you about the issue with the date, as well as other issues related to the closing. I also called the LO to let him know about the date snafu and he confirmed my suspicion that the docs would more than like be rejected due to the date issue. You advised me to go ahead and send the package via FedEx, but to go back out to Mr. Winslette's home the next day to re-sign the package.

6. I dropped the package with the questionable date at FedEx at @ 3:55pm on 5/31/08 and agreed to return the next day at 10:00 am to re-sign the entire package because the borrower was preparing to leave the country on Monday and we did not want to have any problems with funding of this loan.

7. As agreed, I returned promptly at 10:00 on 6/1/08 to re-sign the entire package. However, you asked me to backdate the signing to yesterday's date (5/31/08). Although I am a certified notary and paralegal and have NEVER before backdated documents during my professional tenure, I agreed to make this one exception and notarize the date as 5/31/08 because of the special circumstances surrounding this closing. I trust that you also understand the ethical issues this raises and know that this is not something that I will likely agree to do again.

I am holding the docs until tomorrow where you or someone at Title can have the package picked up from me here at my office.

ISSUES RELATED TO FEE

This is also to confirm that you authorized an additional $100.00 for this closing. That brings the total amount due to $250.00.

If you are in agreement with the statements above, please respond to this email stating so.

I want you to feel comfortable sending me closings and know that I will always do my best to make sure things go as smoothly as possible and that I will always work with you with regard to fees when issues arise. I apologize for the length of this email but I wanted both of us to have some form of written communication outlining what happened with this closing.

I look forward to your response.

Regards,

me

Reply by Dave_CA on 6/1/08 1:12pm
Msg #249609

So you backdated AND published the fact on a public forum...
I'm practically speechless.

Reply by BLT/TX on 6/1/08 1:19pm
Msg #249610

You're right. That prob was not the smartest thing. Now I wish I could delete this post. Silly silly me. We all make mistakes.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/1/08 1:23pm
Msg #249611

Holy Smoke....

Okay - I want to be nice but this is difficult - how in the world do you go to a signing without a Note, DOT, lender docs??? Better yet, how do you manage to get paid an extra $100 for YOUR mistake in not noticing you were missing half the package? What company is this? I want in!!!

So you highlight where the borrower is to sign then give him the package and say "Have at it"....did you not supervise this signing?? Guess not since you said "After printing the missing Lender docs, I went back over the docs I had asked MR BORROWER to sign and noticed that he had dated the entire package (@ 56 pages) 8/31/08, instead of 5/31/08." Not the way I'd conduct a signing but easily fixed - pull his copies and have him sign IN FRONT OF YOU with the proper date - leave him with the incorrectly dated docs....problem solved. (Hope his signature was correct)

You went back Sunday and had the entire package re-signed and backdated it?? WHAT???

After all of the above you have the nerve to still confirm your fee???

Wow...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/1/08 3:11pm
Msg #249622

Re: Holy Smoke....

If you read the post the poster also names the borrower "Mr Winslette"

This is not a signing agent I would want working for me.

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 6/1/08 1:25pm
Msg #249612

My question is; did you print the docs, if so, why didn't you notice that the lender docs were missing? Also, why on earth would you have the borrower sign and date the docs without you watching? This is poor judgement on your part. JMHO

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/1/08 1:29pm
Msg #249613

Is there any reason why you couldn't just swap out the borrower's copies and have him sign those correctly? It would have taken about the same amount of time as striking the date, rewriting it correctly, and initialing the correction.

Regardless, there are no special circumstances that justify backdating. The signer can put any date he wants on the document, but the date you use for the notarization is the date you put pen to paper.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/1/08 1:36pm
Msg #249614

I'm not seeing any special circumstances here. Screwups like this happen all the time, if they were a valid reason for backdating we'd all be doing it about once a week.

It seems to me that the "special circumstance" was that you wanted to make the Fed Ex cutoff time. Which should have been the absolute least of your worries, especially since you say later in the letter that you're holding the package to be picked up from your office, so that obviously was an option all along.

The signing service screwed up, not your fault. The borrower screwed up, not your fault. So why exactly were you willing to put your notary commission at risk and do something illegal? You shouldn't do that when it IS your fault, let alone when somebody else makes the mistakes.

There's really NO Saturday Fed Ex pickups within 50 miles of you? If you were willing to drive that far to the borrower the next day, it seems like you should have just printed a clean set of docs and had him sign again with the correct date. Or gone back the 15 miles and had him sign the borrower's copy. Or just dropped the docs after the cutoff time and they would have had to just wait until Tuesday to get them. Or made someone send a courier service to get the docs from you.

"I trust that you also understand the ethical issues this raises and know that this is not something that I will likely agree to do again."

Yeah, all I see in that sentence is "I'm quite willing to blow off ethics to correct your screwups and I might agree to do it again".

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/1/08 1:45pm
Msg #249617

Ok, after seeing the other posts in this thread I realize that I didn't read yours close enough and it wasn't just the note and DOT that were left out, but the entire lender's package. So everything I said still holds true except the fact that it's definitely your screwup as well.

It's one thing not to notice just the note and DOT missing, those are only about 20 pages, but an entire lenders package missing should have been obvious even without flipping through the docs in advance.

However, the SS shares an equal amount of blame for not uploading the docs correctly in the first place.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/1/08 1:39pm
Msg #249615

I've previously been told on this board that I have a bad attitude. YOU AND YOUR KIND ARE THE REASON FOR MY TOTAL DISGUST WITH SO MANY IN THIS BUSINESS.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/1/08 1:56pm
Msg #249619

I'm speechless n/m

Reply by Calnotary on 6/1/08 2:06pm
Msg #249620

When I go to a signing that is close to 50 miles I don't just check that the loan package is complete but also I call the borrower and ask a few questions:

ID: Valid? current,etc
Loan terms: loan amount? Loan rate? loan term? Monthly payment right? cash back ok?

Oh boy and on top of that you backdated? You are right this qualifies for THE CLOSING FROM HELL for the NotaryRotary community.

Reply by daletx on 6/1/08 3:23pm
Msg #249624

I'd just like to thank you for making those of us who are careful and concientious about our work proud of ourselves. I'm sure the title and signing svcs will lose your number and send the business to someone who knows what they are doing.
I trust you have an occupation to fall back on.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 6/1/08 3:41pm
Msg #249625

Sounds more like a "let's stir up the forum ha ha" post n/m

Reply by Maureen_nh on 6/1/08 4:06pm
Msg #249627

Re: Sounds more like a "let's stir up the forum ha ha" post

I was just going to point out that it was June 1, not April 1.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/1/08 4:24pm
Msg #249628

Hindsight is always 20/20 but I have to say this: The date error should never have happened, you should have been in control of the paperwork, watching the borrower sign. There are certain principles I stick to and one is being in control of the signing. I've not had one person put up a fight at any signing because of me taking charge. They seem to prefer being guided through the process.

In this situation you should have forgotten about shipping docs since you could have driven to the TC's office. Then you could have just calmed down so you could correct the problem of the wrong dates. You made collosal mistakes - you should deliver the docs to them instead of expecting them to pick them up. With the mess you created, you should have done this signing for free. Certainly you should not get extra money.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/1/08 4:44pm
Msg #249629

**'m looking for your thoughts on this email I intend to send the signing co regarding a closing I did yesterday.**

Do not send it.

You had an error in judgment about the dating incorrectly--shouldn't have done it and should not put it in writing that you did it.

Send them an invoice for the amount agreed upon and be done with it. Keep your letter for documentation.

Reply by DebbieT on 6/1/08 4:59pm
Msg #249631

Re: This has got to be a joke right? Back dated, highlighted

Let the borrower go ahead and sign without watching. When I do a signing I watch everything like a hawk. You turn your head for one minute and they are either thinking about the future or reminiscing in the past. Everytime I give them a document to sign I say sign and date and then whatever the date is over and over. Then that does not even work all the time.

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/1/08 8:43pm
Msg #249645

I was bothered enough reading this post, I will not bother reading all the replies, but have this to say and some of my points may have already been brought up.

Who uses a highlighter on pkgs anyway???

Why have brw correct the date? Why not just have brw sign his copy pkg w/ correct date?

Or, why not just print the incorrectly dated docs while at the brws office and send back a flawless pkg?

It was your fault that the docs were dated incorrectly and this is no excuse to backdate the next day. In my mind, you had ample opportunity to correct the error and did not have to send back a sloppy pkg. Backdating is always wrong...there is no "okay" time that I can find in the statute.

Reply by Gary_CA on 6/1/08 10:10pm
Msg #249650

In the words of Donald Trump...

"You're fired"

First of all..."the docs did not upload" so this was an e-docs package... and you went to the signing without a note or deed of trust?????

That is to say, you took about 20-30 pages instead of about 60-90 pages.

A monkey would have noticed the difference.

A blind monkey.

Only an idiot wouldn't have noticed.

A big idiot.

Then the whole back dating thing.

Then blabbermouthing about the back dating.

Please, please, be a patriot, uphold the constitution as you have sworn an oath.

You county recorder opens tommorow at 9 am. Take your journal, hand it in.

Really.

Idiot.

Reply by claudine osborne on 6/1/08 10:24pm
Msg #249653

BLT is you are a lurker, then have you paid attention to anything you have been reaing? I am shocked that you would even post this as your first post! Did you expect us to help you with this..this is just a good example as to why some people should not be in this business! After this posting I am not so sure you will be!

Reply by Nomad/OR on 6/2/08 12:33am
Msg #249664

Holy cow! You broke the law and publicly declared it! n/m

Reply by hassie99 on 6/2/08 10:26am
Msg #249684

I'm a shy one on this site, never publicly posted but your posting yanked me out: OMG! I'm assuming that the docs were e-mailed to you. After downloading and printing, a careful review would have revealed the missing docs. A simple call to the SS/TC could have resolved the oversight. Date "snafu"? When I ask the borrower to sign and date I point to the signature line and date line (occasionally mention the date during direction) and watch them sign. Common sense. Tell us, really, was this your first signing? Honestly.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 6/2/08 11:00am
Msg #249685

You get the rope, I'll find the big tree and this lurker will sin no more.

Harry

Reply by davidK/CA on 6/2/08 12:14pm
Msg #249693

I't really very simple. You have broken the law by backdating. You have violated your oath of office and if you were in California you could be charged with the commission of a felony.

Performing as a Notary Public is beyond your skill set. Before you get into additional trouble with the State of Texas you should resign your commission and hope (no, pray) that the Secretary of State of Texas never hears about your confession, although I would bet they already know all about it. That knock on the door won't be a pizza delivery, they don't have red flashing lights and carry a badge.

I can hear the screams and laughter from your E&O insurer now.

Get out while you can. Maybe the SOS will feel sorry for you if you resign TODAY!

Reply by sue_pa on 6/2/08 2:52pm
Msg #249722

...That knock on the door won't be a pizza delivery, they don't have red flashing lights and carry a badge....

While I totally agree this person is a complete IDIOT (even though they're a 'certified notary' - just love that phrase) and shouldn't be within 100 feet of a loan package in the future, I truly don't think notary offenses are enforced via red flashing lights and a badge at the front door. Perhaps ... in CA ... And yes, I do understand you said it's a felony. However, unless out and out fraud is committed, I cannot see the 'jail' time I see bandied about on these boards and now red flashing lights.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/2/08 5:34pm
Msg #249747

Texas laws pertaining to notaries are so cursory, and the observance so lax, the poster almost certainly doesn't have anything to worry about, even if someone has reported him to the SOS. His only concern normally would be whether a lawsuit of some sort ever calls into question, directly or indirectly, the circumstances of the notarization.

The Texas SOS office doesn't even have a staff attorney; it has a paralegal, with an SOS attorney assigned when necessary. That attorney is not available to respond to legal questions from notaries; best I can tell, he serves only internal functions for the office.

Reply by HudsonBayCA on 6/2/08 2:15pm
Msg #249709

Re: The Closing From Hell - LOL U sure fooled all of us n/m

Reply by Melissa Haley on 6/2/08 3:25pm
Msg #249729

In TX, but signing at bwrs home?

Amid the other glaring acts of negligence, I thought TX deals had to occur at an office of the lender? Did somthing change?

I think this is a greatly concocted story by a good writer. You should apply to cover stories for the local paper.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/2/08 3:47pm
Msg #249731

Thought that was only HELOCs, Melissa...correct me

if I'm wrong.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/08 3:56pm
Msg #249733

Re: In TX, but signing at bwrs home?

A cash out / equity line / HELOC has to be signed in a

-law office
-title company
or
-lender's branch

It could have been a straight refi or a rev mort...although...sometimes I wonder why rev morts are still allowed to close outside the same doors in Texas since they are coming with equity lines these days. Some title companies agree with me...some don't...but as long as it is okay with the insurer of the loan, it's definitely okay with me.

Reply by lindetteh_PA on 6/2/08 5:42pm
Msg #249749

This must be a joke I agree with the person who thinks this was a ''let's stir everybody up'' there are so many things wrong with what you did. YOU SHOULD BE PAYING THEM not the other was around. IMHO you will not be paid they just haven't told you yet (They want the docs first) If this is how you conduct you buisness on a regular basis the other notories in you area have nothing to worry about

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/08 5:56pm
Msg #249751

Re: The Closing From Hell -- funny thing about this

I don't think it's fake. Usually, I am the one who thinks "troll!" but not this time. Tell me I'm wrong BLT!