Posted by Annette_CA on 6/17/08 11:27pm
Msg #251753

The truth about Notary fees and the cost of doing business

This is a message for all notaries accepting low fees.

Here are the real costs of not just "being" a Notary but running a business as a Notary.

I live in California and this is what it costs me:

Education required by California law (every 4 years)(avg) $80.00
Application to test and get commissioned (every 4 years) $40.00
Passport sized photo to go with application (every 4 years $15.00
Live-scan fingerprint for SecState background check (every 4 years) $61.00
4 yr Bond $28.00
Stamp (every 4 yrs) $25.00
1 yr E&O $68.00
Filing Commission and Bond (every 4 years) $31.00
Cell phoneservice - basic (every month) $51.00
Business Advertising (business cards, website, mailing, directories)(avg/mo) $30.00
Business Supplies paper, toner, clips, etc. $48.00
Tax prep and business software (every yr) $145.00

My costs average about $152/mo and DO NOT INCLUDE the cost of operating a vehicle (about $0.65 per mile) and cost of buying computers, printers, fax machines, cell phone, etc.

My fees are on the low side of average and I charge $125 per signing (single loan within 15 mi) and $25 for Edocs and $25 for fax-backs (cost of returning to my home office, time spent faxing and time and wear and tear on my vehicle while returning to mail-out the package). My fees are listed on my website www.AnnettesNotary.com so I don't get phone calls from idiot Signing Service companies who charge the Settlement service $200-$350 and want to pay me $75 for an Edoc signing.

Agents who represent athletes and entertainers take a 10-15% commission yet for some reason Notaries are letting Signing Services (who are basically acting as agents) take over 50% of the fees (For what, looking us up on this site and dialing the phone?)

If you newbies (and I don't mean this as an insult, we were all there) think that taking these signings for low fees will get your foot in the door, think again. When you start charging reasonable fees for your work they will stop calling you.

So, take it from me, we all need to turn down these low-paying jobs. You may be out a few bucks in the short-term but your Notary business will appreciate it in the long-run and the community will thank-you for it.

Reply by jojo_MN on 6/17/08 11:38pm
Msg #251755

Also, you might want to include the monthly fee for your landline and internet service. Also don't forget you have to pay TAXES.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/17/08 11:57pm
Msg #251758

The number of people who want to be notaries in CA has decreased by at least 50% from June 2007. There are not many schools offering classroom participation and I teach for one of the few left standing in 2008.

No one has to worry about "newbies" in CA entering the loan signing profession as that number is down 95%.

If your not working in CA: "Put your marketing hat on!"

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/18/08 11:49am
Msg #251807

for JOAN B: I want to see the figures supporting that as

you keep claiming over and over:

"The number of people who want to be notaries in CA has decreased by at least 50% from June 2007"
and
"No one has to worry about "newbies" in CA entering the loan signing profession as that number is down 95%."

is it because you teach that you feel this way to encourage more to enroll in your classes? I live in Calif and have NOT seen any decrease at all... increase is more like it....

jmo

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/18/08 12:13pm
Msg #251814

Re: for JOAN B: I want to see the figures supporting that as

Call up any notary school in CA and ask them what their attendance is compared to 2007?

Do you actually think we would have an increase in notaries in CA with our housing market?

If you believe that, then you probably think there has been an increase in real estate agents and loan officers in CA in 2008.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/18/08 12:34pm
Msg #251822

Re: for JOAN B: I want to see the figures supporting that as

Joan: I have NO figures to dispute what you're saying HOWEVER one only has to read this forum to see new people coming in each and every day asking for help to get started. I shake my head when I see the posts because so many of us are scaling down until this meltdown hits bottom and begins to rise again. Something certainly is going on for the amount of new folks posting here daily.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/18/08 12:42pm
Msg #251827

Re: for JOAN B: So you have no figures supporting this as

I thought. Attendance is NOT down. XYZ in this area alone has 3-4 classes a week with 50-60 people in each class. These are mostly new people falling for the make tons of $$$ and be a notary.

Ask any newbie who went to XYZ how full their classes were..... Also XYZ says the # are UP not down

I beg to differ that enrollement is down. buy JMO

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/18/08 1:26pm
Msg #251834

Re: for JOAN B: So you have no figures supporting this as

XYZ Company use to average 150 students in each class.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/19/08 1:14am
Msg #251974

Does anyone except zee/Ca understand?

that CA will have less notaries in CA in 2008?

I taught a notary class in Anaheim last Saturday and I had 17 students; 4 of the students were repeats from 2004 and none of them are in the "Mortgage business today."

We use to have 50+ in every class. I teach for a company in CA that use to have 8 teachers and we now have 3 (Sandy in No CA) and Dan Jones & myself in So CA.

Dan Jones owns the company.

We might get 1 student from escrow/lender/title in a notary class; but most of the time there is no one from the mortgage industry.

ZeeCa has such bad marketing skills that he/she hasn't figured out that there should be a link to his/her profile on notrot when posting.

I have gotten a ton of work by linking my profile to my posts and I wonder why he/she doesn't get it?

I got 5 calls today for loan signings and 2 for local public work and I got 2 private responses that were asking how I get so much work. I answered the one out of state and I will respond to the one in Palm Springs area.

My guess is Zee's profile is such a disaster that he/she is embarrassed to link.

Don't be in this business unless you know how to market and linking in notrot is basic marketing 101.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/19/08 7:15am
Msg #251984

Re: Does anyone except zee/Ca understand?

that is yr marketing? Slamming other notaries? Again from talking to people who teach classes IN CALIF they are still getting tons of people sitting in their classes. May be your reputation precedes you? and they are staying away in droves?

I believe NOTHING you say. Calif is overrun with notaries. You just want to make more $$$ cranking out as many notaries as you can.

Linking my profile to fellow notaries gets a notary work? OH PULLEZ.

Reply by Jack Tri on 6/18/08 2:09am
Msg #251765

Cheers Annette..Grrreat Post.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/18/08 6:45am
Msg #251771

I am fulltime and I am the only breadwinner in my family so I've also got other expenses.

Health insurance, retirement (SEP), disability insurance, cushion for when work slows down or I go out of business (because there is no unemployment in PA for the self employed), higher vehicle and HO insurance becuase I operate a business (a fact I'd guess 99% of 'signing agents' don't mention to their insurance carriers), 'signing agent' E&O, PROFIT, EXTREME wear and tear & maintenance on a vehicle when you're putting $2500+ miles on each month (down from the 4000 I used to put on), business phone line, vacation/sick/holiday pay, uncompensated time to run your business (marketing & accounting - even reading these boards !!), zillions of intangibles.

Many of my expenses are higher than Annette's - cell phone, advertising, supplies (mine are A LOT higher especially paper and toner ), I pay an accountant so that is a lot higher and I also go see my lawyer once a year to keep him up to date on what I do - then if I have a question in the middle of the year, I can call without making an appointment and starting at square one. My advertising is also a lot more.

Reply by NANCY HARRISON on 6/18/08 10:04am
Msg #251792

I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER. I have lost 3 this week, and 3 last week.

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/18/08 10:59am
Msg #251802

Here in Maryland we have $568 for $100,000 surety bond; $1,120 for continuing education for TP license renewal: transportation to classes that is always far away @ .40 per mile. My office expense including paper and toner is out the roof. I come from the accounting field and believe me the hidden cost is far greater than meets the eye. Shredding, faxing, paper clips and folders, to name a few more expenses.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/18/08 1:29pm
Msg #251835

Thanks for reminding people that this is a business & that there is a considerable operating cost attached. Too bad the NNA doesn't present that side of it. Even the public (or ss & some tc's) take the "only a notary" view. This is definitely not for everyone. All things considered, I'm still very happy to be going what I do & making the money that I wouldn't be making at Walmart or Walgreens. You also can't factor in the cost of the loss of personal time--because you have to be on-call & available at all times. There are tangible & intangible costs.
I learned very early on that my minimum fee had to be $100 (working with ss) & considerably higher when working directly with the tc. We're all being criticized in America as though we think we're too good to work for basic wages. It is more that we CAN'T (not WON'T) because the cost of living has gone through the roof!!!!!

Reply by Leanna Kemp on 6/18/08 5:50pm
Msg #251901

AMEN....thank you for putting this together. It really helps us. Services are getting down right rude here in Arizona about lowering fees and driving, faxing back ect....for NOTHING....when it costs us to do all of the work.

I keep refusing low fees but someone is working for it....saddens me. At this point I debate continuing my business.