Posted by RJE/MI on 6/4/08 10:55am
Msg #249963

Trip Fee

Although I have done many signings for FASS I have never had a bo refuse to sign once I got there. Lender charged for an app fee and should not have. LO told bo not to sign. He would call them back in the morning and let them know how he would take care of this. Does anyone know if FASS pays a trip fee or any fee at all in this case? I couldn't find anything on the instruction/confirmation that refers to this. I printed docs, drove 100 miles round trip and was at bo home for 1.5 hours so I sure hope so. Mr. bo wanted to know if I was going to get paid even if they don't sign and I just told them not to worry about that and only sign if they were comfortable doing it. So he offered to go ahead and sign just to make sure I would get paid and then he would recind because I came such a long way. Anyway they did not sign. I just wanted to add that last part because I thought that was very nice of him to consider me and the work I had done already.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/4/08 11:01am
Msg #249965

Think it's something like $25. Call them right away and you may be able to get it increased. Generally, you should address 'trip fees' during the initial call & make it real clear (& get it in writing) what YOUR policy is in this circumstance.

Reply by Accesstoledo on 6/4/08 11:30am
Msg #249969

They pay a trip fee and aprinting fee, for a no sign. Had one last night with a separated couple going through a disolution, wouldn't sign.

Reply by jojo_MN on 6/4/08 12:15pm
Msg #249973

I always charge full fee regardless if the loan is signed. We are impartial witnesses. If our fee is based on whether or not a loan is signed, it makes us an iterested party to the transaction. You priinted the docs and went to the closing. You deserve to be paid full fee.

The only time I charge less if the docs are printed and the loan is cancelled before I leave my office. At that point, I only charge the $25 print fee.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 1:11pm
Msg #249979

Re: Trip Fee - JoJo

I'm with you. Why would anyone print docs, drive 100 miles R/T, and spend 1.5 hours with the borrowers for a trip fee?

If I were the original poster, I would probably taken the borrower up on their offer to sign. After all, the fees on the HUD can generally be adjusted during rescission.

Reply by jojo_MN on 6/4/08 1:22pm
Msg #249983

Re: Trip Fee - JoJo

You are correct. I wonder why no one suggested that in the first place?!

Reply by nolanotary on 6/4/08 2:29pm
Msg #249988

I would have had the borrower's sign the entire loan package, including the RTC, and sent back the whole package with RTC on top. If I print a package and drive to the borrower's location, I am entitled to full payment of my fee, whether or not they sign or cancel. That's on the lender/title co, not me.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/4/08 5:23pm
Msg #250005

I agree that you should get paid whether they sign or not.
But if the borrowers do not want to sign, how are you going to have them sign?
If someone comes to me with a loan package and it is not the terms I have agreed to there is no way anyone is going to have me sign the package.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 6:46pm
Msg #250014

If the issue is one of the fees or payoffs on the HUD, an experienced loan signer should be able to verify with the TC and/or LO that a revision to the HUD can be made during the rescission period. There is also a possibility that the rate lock could expire, and the LO should be able to tell you if this is a concern.

At that point, it is up to the borrower to decide if they want to go ahead with the signing or prefer to have documents redrawn and sign another day.

In this case, it appears the borrowers were aware of their right to cancel but may not have realized that the HUD could be revised during rescission.

If the LO is quick to offer a redraw, maybe their was no issue with the rate expiring, but he should be made aware that there is still a notary fee to be paid.

Reply by PAW on 6/4/08 7:30pm
Msg #250024

>>> If the issue is one of the fees or payoffs on the HUD, an experienced loan signer should be able to verify with the TC and/or LO that a revision to the HUD can be made during the rescission period. There is also a possibility that the rate lock could expire, and the LO should be able to tell you if this is a concern. <<<

If the issue is one of fees or payoffs on the HUD, an experienced loan signer would have the borrowers contact the TC and/or LO to determine if the HUD can be revised during the rescission period. IMO, the signing agent should not be contacting anyone on behalf of the borrower under these circumstances. The borrowers need to initiate the call and explain the situation, not the signing agent. If the signing agent acts as an intermediary, then the signing agent may be blamed for providing false information ("The notary said ...." or worse yet, be guilty of UPL.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 7:50pm
Msg #250027

Agreed

I usually make the call using my phone, then put the borrower on the line so they can speak to the EO or LO and hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

My point is: I want to give the borrower every opportunity to hear all of their options before halting a signing. I'm not in business to make two trips and get two fees for the same loan if a phone call or two can clarify any issues or concerns the borrower has.

Even in this horrible market, I would rather save the time, gas, and aggravation for everyone involved.

Reply by RJE/MI on 6/4/08 9:32pm
Msg #250035

As you can tell from my last post I tend to ramble on to much so I did not post everything that went on or was said at this signing because I just wanted to get to the point of what I wanted to know. So just to put your mind at ease PAW I will give you a little more detail. When I started to go over the HUD Bo was already put off because he could not understand why they collected 12 mos. for summer taxes. I explained to them that they needed the 12 months because summer taxes were due July 1st. He then went on to say that is not exceptable. He has been doing business with the lender for years and there is no reason for them to take all that money up front. That they should be able to trust him to come up with the money when it comes due. I asked him if he was not aware that they were going to have an escrow account and he said no he knew and he also knew how an escrow account works. I knew at that point I had to calmly and carefully explain how an escrow account works without insulting him by implying that he really did not know how one works. With my 19 years of expierence closing loans I was able to pull it off so much so that he was very happy with the escrow account situation. When the app fee came up it was the wife who was not happy. I did tell her that if they signed now changes could still be made during the rec. period but she was not having any of that. She wanted to know why it was there at all and until she knew she was not going to sign. At that point I suggested that they could call the lo and ask him if he knew why it was there all the while thinking to myself that the lo would put her mind to rest by telling her to go ahead and sign and he would send them a revised HUD during the rec. period. I have never had a lo that didn't want a loan to close when it should especially when it was an easy fix and even more especially since the rate lock expired the next day. Unfortunatly that did not happen. When the bo called the lo he told them that it should not be there, he doesn't know why it is and they should not sign tonight. The bo's told him they really wanted to sign now so did he have any solutions on how this could still close tonight. Lo told them he was not at work so there was no one he could ask on how to fix the situation right now. He would call them back the next morn. when he got into the office and again told them not to sign. The lo convinced them not to sign. At that point I was not going to try to convince them that they should not listen to the lo and that they should listen to me and sign anyway. After that is when he made the offer to sign the docs just to be sure that I would get paid but not because they wanted to. Although it was very kind of them to make that offer I do not think it is the bo responsibility to make sure I get paid and after thanking them I told them not to worry about me and only sign if they it they were doing it for themselves. So I'm pretty sure I handled the signing the way an expierenced loan signer would. I'm sorry if my first post lead you to believe differently. I'm sure everyone may handle situations that come up a little differently and that is why I love this forum so much. Because even though I have been doing loan closings for a long time and tend to think I know what I'm doing, I will read something on this forum that I have never thought of before and put it into use and it makes my job so much easier. So thank you PAW and all the posters on this thread.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 10:14pm
Msg #250040

It sounds like you handled yourself well at this closing

and you deserve to be paid the full fee.

Reply by PAW on 6/5/08 7:14am
Msg #250070

So, what you explained is not a 'fee' issue per se, but rather a misunderstanding of the process. In that case, the SA should handle it. The way I read your post was that if the borrower has a problem with an actual amount (such as a payoff) the SA should contact the LO. That's where the disagreement lies.

No harm, no foul.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/5/08 7:47am
Msg #250074

maybe I'm misunderstanding but I make the call quite often for borrowers. Naturally some people are on the phone to the LO before even saying a word to me. I then sometimes wonder if the LO thinks they sent an idiot to the table because I didn't help with the most basic info.


They don't understand something so I tell them to call. They still sit and stare at the document - they discuss it between themselves - I tell them again we can sit there all night while they 'guess' what's going on but we need to call the person who knows and we'll have our answer in minutes. They discuss it some more between themselves. I may KNOW what's wrong but not my place to tell them - their discussions at the table are out in left field. Literally with some people you could sit there for 1/2 hour until they motivate themselves to pick up the telephone.

Borrowers call their LO and don't know what to ask - because they don't understand what they see in front of them. They don't know how to ask what they want. I sit there and coach them ... it's the Settlement Sheet ... it's on the Note ... prepayment is discussed in xxx paragraph.

When there is a problem, most times I am the one to make the call to the LO. I tell the LO what the problem is and I then turn the LO over to the borrowers. No preliminary discussions on my time about last night's sad hockey game, golf forecast for the weekend, or any of the other subjects they seem so well versed in together - makes you wonder why they didn't get into all that detail with the loan.

I don't think that's UPL - it's just moving everyone along. They don't know, I'm not telling, and I'm just getting them in touch with the person who does know - in a timely manner.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/5/08 8:10am
Msg #250078

Exactly what I was talking about

I'm not going to sit there while the borrower goes on and on about something not being right or not being what was discussed before with his LO.

I make the call to the appropriate person (EO or LO), briefly explain the issue, then put the borrower on the phone so they can get the information needed to help them decide if they are going to sign or not.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/5/08 8:23am
Msg #250079

"... I tell them to call. They still sit and stare at the document."

Yes, this happens quite often. And I agree that the B often does not know how to express what they want to ask. I also make the call to TC or L/O if B does not do so right away. What I hate is when the B has told L/O or TC whatever the issue is, and then the L/O or TC asks them to hand the phone to me so they can explain it to me, and expect me to explain it to B.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/6/08 12:29am
Msg #250199

I sooo agree with both you and Sue_pa!

This is where it's real handy to have a speaker phone on your cell! We all hear the same conversation, we can help the borrowers get to the point and use correct language so the lo understands better what their issue is - or at least knows what documents they're talking about. And sometimes we can steer the conversation (or keep in on point) by asking carefully selected questions, especially if - as appears to be the case in the situation that started this thread - the lo doesn't really know what to do.

Reply by RJE/MI on 6/8/08 3:54am
Msg #250422

Re: I sooo agree with both you and Sue_pa!

Actually the bo's did have the phone on speaker and I did explain what the issue was when it sounded like the lo was not understanding what the bo's were explaining to them but he still came back with the same response. Sorry I did not add that in originally but I am glad you mentioned it for others.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/4/08 8:06pm
Msg #250030

I agree with PAW on this one - the borrower has to make the decisions, and the SA should not be providing any input at all. As an SA, it's simply not my problem - sign or don't sign, whatever you're comfortable with. The last thing I want to do is become a middleman between the borrower and the LO.

Also:

"There is also a possibility that the rate lock could expire, and the LO should be able to tell you if this is a concern."

If the rate lock is going to expire during the rescission period, the LO clearly hasn't done his or her job properly. The loan is essentially in limbo during that period, and no amount of yelling and screaming by the LO is going to get it funded before the lock expires.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 9:33pm
Msg #250036

I agree, the borrower makes the decision to sign or not to sign. I was stating my feeling that the borrower should be made aware of all their options before making that decision. If that means that a call is made to the EO or LO to clear up any questions, I will make the call and have them speak directly with the borrower.

As far as the rate lock expiring, I was referring to the rate only being valid until the scheduled funding date of the loan package currently on the table. In the case of a redraw and signing at a later date, the rate lock would be in danger of expiring unless the lender agreed to extend the lock.

I do not sell (or resell) loans at the table. I do put the borrower in touch with the appropriate people who can give them their options.

Again, I would much rather make one trip instead of two, even if it means I am foregoing a second closing fee.

Reply by Calnotary on 6/4/08 6:52pm
Msg #250016

Question to you Sylvia...

So when you paid your signer full fee even if borrower did not sign because wrong loan terms or any other reason. Do you still get paid full fee from your client? Most cheap SS that pays only 50.00 dollar per trip/print fee they still collect 75.00 from their clients, so they still get 25.00 to make a simple phone call.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/4/08 9:59pm
Msg #250038

Re: Question to you Sylvia...See msg # 249677 n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/4/08 10:22pm
Msg #250041

Re: Question to you Sylvia...

No, I only bill the title company what I pay the signer,. I don't make any money at all on no signs. It is my agreement with the title companies. The signer gets their full fee.

Reply by RJE/MI on 6/4/08 7:32pm
Msg #250025

I also agree that we should get paid weather they sign or not but the reason I asked is because through my own neglect I failed to make a previous agreement with them and I have never been paid for a signing when the bo's refused to sign, from any company, even if the confirmation sheet said they would pay something if this situation should occur. I really had no idea how to get them to pay. When I became a NSA 4 years ago I did it through XXX and I believed they were the "Boss" of all NSA's. I got all my advise on how to run my business from them. That is until I found Notary Rotary this year. XXX tells you that when you are trying to collect on an overdue account that you should not threaten them, you should not call them over and over again etc. They say that you should send them a certified letter and follow up with them every 2 weeks. If that does not work then they have a collection company they work with that you can hire to try to get your money. If that doesn't work take them to small claims court or just except it as a loss. The reason I am saying this is because up until I started reading the NotRot forums I had 5 unpaid accounts from 2007 that I counted as a loss because NNA tactics did not work. XXX scared me into thinking that if I contacted these non-paying companies that owed me, more than what XXX advised me to, then I could get into trouble for harrassment or something. But since I became a member here and started reading all the postings I am happy to say that I have been paid on 4 out of the 5 outstanding invoices and I have not given up on number 5. I have also cut my office supply fees in half by ordering my paper from Fed Ex instead of Staples, getting my toner on ebay instead of ordering direct from Dell and ordering my notary supplies from NotRot. I have also started raising my fees to a more acceptable amount then what XXX advised me to ask for. With all of the extra money I am saving and earning I have already made as much $$ this year as I did all of last year. Thank you for getting me out of my XXX shell and making me realize that this is my business and I should run it in a way that makes me successful and not XXX. Thank you for all of your very helpful advise and keep on posting.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/4/08 8:16pm
Msg #250031

Another convert here. Hooray for you, RJE/MI! n/m

Reply by Bernice/CA on 6/4/08 7:00pm
Msg #250018

Hi,

FASS paid my full fee recently when a BO didn't sign docs. In my situation, the husband was stuck in a meeting and wife wanted to wait. We rescheduled the appointment, I called FASS, explained situation, and was told would receive full fee.

B.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/4/08 9:27pm
Msg #250034

I have had several loans where the only problem was a wrong charge on the HUD ex: application fee, loan discount fee etc. After phone calls to LO or broker, all docs are signed except the HUD. This way, the loan is ready to fund if they get it worked out and corrected in the recission period. No need for a 2nd trip or trip and print fee. Hud can be faxed, e-mailed or overnighted for borrower to sign.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/5/08 4:28am
Msg #250061

Agree, Linda - that's what baffled me on this

Really couldn't understand WHY the L.O. advised them NOT to sign over something as easily fixed as this (removing/revising a fee on the Hud). Sounds to me like the L.O. was a rookie - absolutley no reason to have to reschedule, redraw docs and start all over when all you need is a new Hud.

Reply by PAW on 6/5/08 7:19am
Msg #250071

Depends on lender and title company

I've had closings where everything, and I mean e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g, had to be perfect at the table. No corrections, no fixing anything later. Even if the HUD had to be modified/corrected, it would cause a redraw of the docs, and resign.

The packages even include the compliance agreements for E&O. Why? I don't know, given their policy of "it has to be perfect the first time."

Thankfully, I don't do too many of those.