Posted by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 2:32pm
Msg #278580

Provident E & O requirements

I'm a signing agent here in California and have been turning down several Provident signings because I work independently and have only the 100k e&o insurance through NNA. My understanding is that I can either work under a SS who has a 500k policy or possibly acquire a professional liability policy as an individual. I would prefer the latter. My question is, has anyone had any problem with Provident accepting professional liability vs the standard E & O from an individual, independent notary and also does anyone know of a reputable insurance company that writes these policies (preferably one that has been previously accepted by Provident). Any help is graciously accepted. Thanks

Jason V. Adams

Reply by Steven Pearce on 2/24/09 2:36pm
Msg #278581

Posted by Jason Adams of AK on 2/24/09 2:32pm ... AK or CA?

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 2:49pm
Msg #278586

oops sorry, california. San Diego more specifically.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/24/09 3:15pm
Msg #278596

Re: Provident E & O requirements n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 2/24/09 3:16pm
Msg #278597

Whoops!
What Provident wants is liability insurance not just E&O. They will ask for a copy of your policy before ‘approving’ you. Travelers, as well as State Farm sell this type of insurance, you just have to find a knowledgeable agent. This has been discussed many times here..

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 3:55pm
Msg #278607

Thanks for the response Les.

Reply by dickb/wi on 2/24/09 3:06pm
Msg #278593

there is a difference between profesional liability.......

insurance and e&o insurance......nna does not sell [to my knowledge ] the e & o insurance that provident is talking about.....the e&oyou have with nna is notary e & o...that only covers any errors or omissions that occur as a result of your notarizations.....prffesional liability covers your liabilty that may occur as a result of your notary work [ie: bodily injury or property damage]....continental is the only co that i know of that is issuing "signing agent" e & o....they only issue up to 100k......you can order it thru united states notary association or american society of notaries.....cost is not cheap......you might want to check with a title co and see who their carrier is and call them and see what they could do for you...

Reply by Charles_Ca on 2/24/09 3:10pm
Msg #278595

Jason, DickB is right there are differences in the coverage

I am an insurance agent in Ca but I don't sell E&O, I think the policy and service if Notary Rotary is hard to beat for E&O but if you want more information on Professional Liability or a BOP (Business owner's policy) give me a call: you can click on my profile to get myh information. I'm just not sure that a BOP or Professional Liability is really necessary for a notary. You'd be paying for protection that is in excess of what you need as a notary only.

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 4:01pm
Msg #278609

Re: Jason, DickB is right there are differences in the coverage

Thanks Charles, I will probably call you for a quote then. I agree that Professional Liabilty in all liklihood is not necessary for me as a notary, however this particular lender is requiring it in order to complete their loan signings so i may be forced to carry this type of policy.

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 3:58pm
Msg #278608

Re: there is a difference between profesional liability.......

Thanks for the input Dick. yeah I figured as much (there's a difference). As i was saying, I already have the 100k "notary" e & o through NNA but that doesn't satisfy Provident's 500k, professional liability insurance requirement.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/24/09 3:53pm
Msg #278605

I know this has been discussed before, but IMHO $500K is excessive for a notary.
I believe it is intended for those acting as "settlement agents", which we are not.
Many businesses have a minimum requirement for anyone they do business with.
IMO we do not fall in the general category that would warrant it.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/24/09 3:55pm
Msg #278606

Forgot to add that E&O for a tc is very different from Notary E&O. I believe that's where the confusion comes in.

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 4:06pm
Msg #278611

confusion for Provident perhaps but this is what I have to deal with in order to perform signings for them...ugh

Reply by Jason Adams on 2/24/09 4:05pm
Msg #278610

Agreed. I would think the escrow officer/settlement agent/title company would be the one required to carry it. as a matter of fact, Provident let escrow know that if I were an employee of the title/escrow company then I would be covered by their policy and I would not need to go purchase my own. It really is overkill and probably a result of some legal knucklehead not really understanding what we do and the specific liabilities that we as notaries incur.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/24/09 4:10pm
Msg #278612

Agree 100%. To add to the issue there are states that require a TPL for a NSA. I understand that MD is one of those states, and they have substantial bond requirements, etc.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/24/09 4:24pm
Msg #278614

I have a friend here in Denver that has a Signing Service. She carries one million dollars in professional liability insurance. She schedules Provident closings regularly. She ‘covers’ her ‘NSA’s under her ‘umbrella’ Provident has approved that. However she would like her NSA’s to carry 100k E&0.
I personally believe it’s a BS requirement. I carry $100K E&O ($300k as a Realtor). Provident loans are a pain…easy if you follow their 8 rules EXACTLY. But don’t change anything, and watch the borrowers that they date after their signature (and not for each other) and check they don’t put any check marks in the margin of the HUD. (Had a lady do this the other day, had to use her copy) and be sure you QC the signed docs at the table.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/24/09 4:32pm
Msg #278615

Re: Provident E & O requirements/ and

And……… if anything is not perfect, PERFECT! According to Provident, they do a redraw of docs and charge $300. Sometimes Title will pay, sometimes the (rarely) SS. But Provident has been known to go after the NSA, not to just go get the new docs signed to their specs, but for the redraw free.
For the maybe one every month or so I get…I just pass.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 2/24/09 5:53pm
Msg #278623

Funny how soon they'll drop this

when push comes to shove. I've done quite a few of these and I don't meet that threshold, but when it comes time to close and they can't find someone they'll bend.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/24/09 6:09pm
Msg #278624

Re: Funny how soon they'll drop this

I have not known Provident to bend on this requirement. Our contract closers have not been allowed to close these even though we argued that our insurance would cover them. I have had to close the Providents myself as an employee.

We had one file that was a good distance away, outside of our normal coverage area. We asked a local office of our underwriter, First American, to conduct the signing as an accommodation. Provident would not allow it because First American did not carry an E&O policy. First American probably has more money on hand than most E&O providers, but they did not have a policy. It was a long drive.

I actually began to like Provident after a while, notwithstanding all of their odd requirements. They hustled to get the packages out on time, the packages were reasonably sized and they were clean and correct. We never had a redraw. I have not dealt with them in a while, as our only broker using Provident left us for a cheaper title slut.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 2/24/09 6:22pm
Msg #278625

I don't meet the requirement

and looking back the last 2 years I closed 17 of them. I do agree that they were easy once you got the borrowers on line to follow the instructions. As for your last sentence you have left yourself open for a question or two, but the better part of valor says for me to pass it by.

Reply by Pat/IL on 2/24/09 7:50pm
Msg #278634

Re: I don't meet the requirement

I wouldn't question that you and many others are closing these loans, Phil. Maybe we were dealing with a stricter office, I don't know. I do remember speaking with some guy named Alex there, on at least three different occasions, promising that I was an actual employee. Maybe they have other offices that are not as dogged about the requirement. Or maybe the signing services simply told them that they were sending employees out to do the jobs. But they even typed my name in as the escrow officer each time.

I have wondered how this company even came to deal with signing agencies, since the signing agencies rely so heavily on contractors - most of whom do not meet their E&O requirements.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 2/25/09 2:08pm
Msg #278703

Re: Provident E & O requirements/ and

Seems to me that Provident is just not worth the expense or hassle.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/24/09 7:12pm
Msg #278628

Do a search, this has been discussed in the past...

and there are a few members that get enough PFD biz to make it worth while to purchase the %00k policy.