Posted by Claudine Osborne on 2/18/09 9:30pm
Msg #278038

Signing the HUD

I just did a signing where the instructions stated that I was to sign the HUD! I did not prepare this HUD! I did not sign it. Do you think my fee will be deducted? lol
What would you do?

Reply by Mike Cooper on 2/18/09 9:40pm
Msg #278041

don't sign the hub unles your a title company, mortgage person, or loan officer. DON"T DO IT.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/18/09 10:17pm
Msg #278046

I’ve had a couple where I was instructed to sign the HUD!?! Stupid…stupid…STUPID! But I did as instructed…., However I lined through the wording stating that I prepared it and it was all accurate, and I would disburse accordingly… etc. Also lined though “Settlement Agent” and put in “notary.”(Next time I think I’ll just line through “settlement” and put in “travel” or maybe “secrete” just to see what happens?) I also made two copies; both signed by the borrowers…but only one signed by me. I figure title threw the one I lined through and signed away during clean out. No one said that some SS’s or Title Co’s can read, know what they are doing, or even are from this planet. I won’t go into requiring the BNS, or a single borrower to sign the top of the 1003……

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/18/09 10:34pm
Msg #278048

Les that's a decent idea. I've never come across this...but I'll keep this in mind if it ever does happen and then address in my cover letter notes.

Reply by Gary Boehm on 2/18/09 10:35pm
Msg #278049

I agree with Les...

If a line says "Closing Agent" or "Settlement Agent" I don't sign it. I have never signed a HUD because I did not prepare it! If somewhere I am instructed to sign something that says "Closing Agent" or "Settlement Agent" I line out the Closing or Settlement and write Signing and then sign it. Usually this is only on the Identification page so I figure, yes I can sign that I verified their ID (by their driver's license, etc) because I did do that. And then enclose a copy of their driver's license AND keep one for myself.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/19/09 1:18am
Msg #278053

Re: I agree with Les...

"And then enclose a copy of their driver's license AND keep one for myself."

Gee, that's not a horrific violation of people's privacy or anything. You do this why, exactly?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/18/09 10:28pm
Msg #278047

I wouldn't do it... even if instructed.


"The HUD-1 Settlement Statement which I have prepared is a true and accurate account of this transaction. I have caused or will cause the funds to be disbursed in accordance with this statement."


That's not anything I'm going to affirm since I did not do it nor will I.... especially since right underneath it, it reads:

"Warning: It is a crime to knowingly make false statements to the United States on this or any similar form. Penalties upon conviction can include a fine and imprisonment. For details see: Title 18 U.S. Code Section 1001 and Section 1010."

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/19/09 3:01am
Msg #278054

>>"Warning: It is a crime to knowingly make false statements to the United States on this or any similar form. Penalties upon conviction can include a fine and imprisonment. For details see: Title 18 U.S. Code Section 1001 and Section 1010."<< I love that part.

And I like Les' idea too, and ditto the 1003. It's that "if it's a signature line, by golly, there's gotta be a signature on it" mentality. Hey, Les, you could add: "I did not prepare this document and have no authority to sign it. The Signing Service made me do it."

Along similar lines, a while back, one snippy SS demanded I re-do an ack because I put my name after "..before me, (unsrt notary's name), personally appeared (insert signer's name)..." She ranted on and on that I was notarizing my own name, no matter what I said. -^^-

Possible comeback? "You must be new, notaries don't sign the HUD, we make sure it's in the stack and that the borrowers sign. It's a federal form."

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/19/09 7:04am
Msg #278057

Requesting you to make false statements on the HUD 1 form from which disbursement is to be made may be construed as Solicitation to commit Bank Fraud. If you agree to it there might be a basis for conspiracy to commit Bank Fraud. If you sign the HUD 1 form knowing its contents to be false...you have commited Bank Fraud.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/19/09 7:23am
Msg #278060

Maximum penalty for Bank Fraud is 30 years incarceration and a fine of $1,000,000.00.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/19/09 7:55am
Msg #278063

What would be the fine for crossing out the HUD1 Settlement Statement verbage, and lining through "settlement" agent and printing in "secret" ? Is this defacing a Government form? Leon says he sees the word "execte" everywhere in the CO notary handbook. Can we really kill these people that require us to do these things?

So do you think some of these cheap, hand-holding SS’s purposely include in their instructions to “sign the HUD” or other illegal requests, knowing that we won’t/can’t do it, just so they can justify reducing our agreed upon fees?
If these people would use their time thinking of ways to increase their business, rather than ways to try chisel their contracted help, they would be far better off. Just think about their mindset…do you really want to work for someone that thinks like that?

Reply by LisaWI on 2/19/09 8:11am
Msg #278064

Re: Claudine....

Is this Equity National? They have that directive in their instructions. I called them about this to let them know under no circumstances was I going to sign this. She understood and said we dont need to sign it.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/19/09 8:21am
Msg #278065

In criminal trials there are two phases to trial. The first establishes liability. If the Defendant is found guilty the second phase...sentencing comes itno play. The first phase makes inquiry as to the facts that may or may not establish the prosecution's case. If a guilty verdict is returned there is an examination of mitigating and aggrevating circumstances as to why the defendant committed the crime. These mitigating and aggrevating circumstances impact on the sentence. In answer to your question ...no, you can only refuse to comply with an legal request.

The legality of the contract is fundamental to the validity of the contract. A contract requiring illegal performance is void. You may remember a movie called "Indecent Proposal" in which a wife contractually agreed to perfom services of prostitution in Nevada. Nevada is the only state in the union that has legalized prostitution. The contract was legal in Nevada only. Because it was legal in Nevada the other 49 states had to enforce the contract under the "Full Faith And Credit Clause" of the Constitution. Federal law supersedes state law under the "Supremacy Clause" of the Constitution. In answer to your second question...if the signing service is asking you to do something which is illegal in your state, it is unenforceable. Part or all of the contract may be void depending upon whether there was a severability clause in the contract. The illegal clause can not be used to reduce your fee.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 2/19/09 8:24am
Msg #278066

Sorry, the last sentence of the first paragraph should read ''...refuse to comply with an illegal request."

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 2/19/09 8:47am
Msg #278069

Yes this was Equity National..I DID not and never will sign something that is not in mine to sign. I know my role and limitations.

I attatched a note to these instructions stating this is an illegal act to sign this HUD as I did not prepare etc.

I do not want to commit fraud or got to jail for any amount of money.. Plus I do not look good in stripes !

Sometimes I wonder who writes these instructions..Is this a test?

Reply by Les_CO on 2/19/09 10:41am
Msg #278084

Thanks Kevin! But Gosh…you talk just like a lawyer ! BTW I hate my MS wireless keyboard when the batteries get low….that word was supposed to be “execute”.
So to paraphrase: No, we can’t kill’um, and no, they can’t cheat us out of our fee because we won’t commit an illegal act.
Can we pass a “Make my Day” law for NSA’s? If they come into our homes or place of business via computer, and violate our sensibilities, by giving us ridiculous instructions, and stipulations ….after we’ve accepted the assignment…It seems only fair that we could reciprocate by going to their home, or place of business and shoot’em? No? One can always hope.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/19/09 10:50am
Msg #278085

That's where CA law (at least) comes in handy for some of us. It's a crime to even ask a California notary to do something against the law, provided of course they know what they're asking is against the law... and when you're dealing wih SSs and TCs, they know... and that is often a nice argument when people start hedging on payment for failure to do something like this.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/19/09 8:42am
Msg #278067

I've had one company (Equity National) request this. I told them I cannot do that & would not , under any cirumstances, misrepresent my capacity. They are actually a great co. to work with, and the issue never came up again. I don't understand why it wasn't taken out of their instructions.

Reply by LisaWI on 2/19/09 9:00am
Msg #278071

My thoughts exactly Marilyn. I wonder how many new or inexperienced SA's sign it? When I called she told me they have never required the SA to do this. And yes, they are a good comp to work for.

Reply by HKB on 2/19/09 9:58am
Msg #278081

I had a similar situation .... got very concerned and called the title company and they told me not to worry and leave it blank.

Problem solved.

me