Posted by jojo_MN on 1/14/09 6:05pm
Msg #274484

DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME AS SENDER with UPS

Just got burned again by Archer Land Title months after they went out of business. UPS told me that I have to pay for their last 5 shipments because they denied charges.

From now on, I will NOT be using receivers account numbers and making the labels, even though they are so handy, even for my best clients. Archer Land Title used to be one of my best clients. I should have done this in the past as others have suggested. Lesson learned.

Thanks for letting me vent!!!!

Reply by Vince/KS on 1/14/09 6:40pm
Msg #274486

Worse yet, you are likely not getting the discounted shipping rate that Archer was likely receiving. Perhaps the actual charges could be negotiated with a manager as the statement you signed assumed that the receiver would be paying for the charge and you nor they had reason to believe that was not the case. Perhaps someone can add to this or provide additional thoughts or experience they've had with this problem.

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/14/09 6:53pm
Msg #274489

They were all done in SEPT. Why are they just billing now?? n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/14/09 7:06pm
Msg #274491

More like they just found out they're not going to get paid

by Archer so you're next on the list...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/14/09 7:24pm
Msg #274493

As awful as it sounds, the shipper of the package is always ultimately responsible for payment. UPS evens says as much in their tariff/TOS document:

"Notwithstanding any billing plan that is in effect or payment or billing option
selected at the time of shipment, the shipper is ultimately liable for and agrees
to pay all Charges, including in the event of insolvency, bankruptcy, nonpayment
or refusal to pay by the consignee or third party."

link: http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf

The fact is, even though they offer to pay to for the shipment, you are still liable for it.

I never said is was fair... that's just how their shipping contract and terms read.

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/14/09 7:29pm
Msg #274495

That is true; however, when done online, they know immediately once it is shipped. Why are they waiting over three months to bill it out? If they would have done it immediately,they would have been paid, or at least I would have been able to turn down any more business from Archer Land. All five of the closings were completed by the third week in September.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/14/09 8:28pm
Msg #274499

I suppose it depends on the way Archer was being billed by UPS for their services. The office I'm in gets a bill from UPS on a monthly basis. So, if the bill arrived in October, and maybe had a due date in November... which Archer missed, and then UPS waited 30-60 days to see if payment was just "late" then they figured they aren't getting paid, so they turned it around to you.

Actually 90-120 days makes sense as a time frame from hearing from them.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/15/09 1:18am
Msg #274519

I remember having to *return* payments from dairies

for the previous three months when the dairies went bankrupt. Thousands of dollars. How fair was that? Pfft!

So, UPS went to you and all the other notaries. That could be a factor. Good thing it's deductible, in any case.

UPS is like the lender in a way: they're both in the first position.

Reply by joyj on 1/15/09 11:22pm
Msg #274619

GREAT FYI, THANKS

Reply by SharonH/OH on 1/15/09 6:30am
Msg #274527

Archer Land Title - UPS charges

Can the Bankruptcy Proof of Claim be amended to include the shipping charges? Any attorneys out there who can respond? Not that we're going to get much on that anyway.....

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 1/15/09 7:53am
Msg #274531

Sorry you had to get hit for that. I stopped putting my name on labels when the first posting appeared here. As for signing the release on the ship labels I make sure my signature is not ledgable. I spoke to UPS once to ask if I didn't put my name on the sender portion how would they handle it if the receiver didn't pay. They said they would use my signature to find me in order to charge the sender. So I fixed that problem.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/15/09 8:36am
Msg #274533

I use handwritten airbills and put title company name as both sender and receiver. I also mark it to bill shipper, so TC is billed as shipper and not receiver. I date but never sign the UPS airbills. I've been tempted to use the on-line labels for my regular TC customers, but I did get one chargeback last year and after the EFS chargebacks that many got stuck with, I resist the urge. I did finally get reimbursed from the TC for my chargeback, but it was a hassle.

I just replenished my stock of FedEx and UPS airbills from drop boxes - you have to find an office park because those are the only drop boxes that seem to be plentiful with airbills! I always get airbills from drop boxes because others have said that if you order them on-line, the tracking numbers can be traced to your account.

Reply by nolanotary on 1/15/09 8:42am
Msg #274535

I had the same problem a year ago with a title co. I had my UPS account setup through my business credit card which is actually what saved me. When the dead beat title co refused payment and UPS billed me, I just disputed the charges through the credit card company. They credited me back for the UPS charges. UPS called me once a month for about 4 months until I finally requested to speak to a supervisor. I explained to the supervisor that I sent the packages (3 seperate loan packages on 3 seperate days) to this same title per their instructions. I also faxed her a copy of the confirmation showing their request, address & UPS account #. I explained to her that when the delivery driver had the title co sign for receipt, they accepted responsibility for payment. I told the UPS supervisor that I would be happy to pay for those packages if they refused receipt, however, they chose to accept them so call them for payment. I refuse to use UPS now and have cancelled my account with them because of all the BS I've had to deal with from them, but the problem is solved and I did not have to pay.

As others have mentioned...never put your information on shipping labels. I also never use shipping labels sent to me. Instead, I use ones from the drop boxes so there is no way the shipping co can track the shippment back to me.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 1/15/09 10:27am
Msg #274538

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx? n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/15/09 10:55am
Msg #274539

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

Best practice is to use the handwritten airbills for both FedEx and UPS.

Reply by cdoty_IL on 1/15/09 12:58pm
Msg #274550

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

I have gotten burned by this one time, but not because a company went out of business, but disputed with UPS and dropped their account so they charged it back to me. And, not only are you charged w/o a discount but they also add a charge back fee to it as well...I think it was $15.00...in addition to the shipping charges. I tried to invoice that company for it, I spoke to them and they said they would take care of it...but guess what? Never saw the money..

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/15/09 1:03pm
Msg #274553

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

That's another reason I don't like UPS. Why should WE get penalized because of the SS/TC's actions?!

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/15/09 2:32pm
Msg #274575

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

Why should UPS be penalized because of the SS/TC's actions? Just like us, they're offering a service and they expect to be paid for performing it. You used the service, you told them exactly how to find you even though you saw plenty of warning on this board about this very thing happening and the VERY easy way to keep it from happening.

Suck it up.

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/15/09 2:41pm
Msg #274578

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

That was my purpose of posting. As in my original post, this is just a warning for others that may not have seen it in the past. That is why I said "lesson learned".

I'm just irritated that this is just biting me now--four months later.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/15/09 1:05pm
Msg #274555

Re: Is this just UPS problem . . any problems with FedEx?

Yes, you get the chargeback for the shipping fee, plus (with UPS) a $10 chargeback fee. When this happened to me, it was because the TC had decided to stop using UPS and they claimed they had switched to DHL Aug 1st, but yet on Aug 10th when I did the job the instructions and account number I was given were for shipping via UPS.

I received a bill in Oct or so and it took several reminders and letters before the TC finally coughed up the money. Had I not pursued it, they would never have gotten around to reimbursing me. All the gory details are on message # 217051.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/15/09 2:52pm
Msg #274580

Clarification - mine was in 2007, maybe the chargeback fee

is higher now.

Reply by cdoty_IL on 1/16/09 9:34pm
Msg #274813

Re: Clarification - mine was in 2007, maybe the chargeback fee

This is the first time I have ran across this being discussed on the board, I usually check out SS on NotRot, but never thought I would have to worry about Fedex and UPS too.