Posted by Leon_CO on 1/31/09 9:07pm
Msg #276096
Maybe I'm gettin' too old for this, ...
but I prefer to go just a tad on the slow side when I'm doing a closing.
I've been following the discussion in which the poster boasts about how fasts he can get through a signing -- in 20 minutes. Heck, it takes me that long to fill out my notary journal in the beginning and review the documents after the signing to make sure that all the t's are crossed and i's are dotted. Okay, maybe not that long.
My point is that, a closing is not supposed to be a 'Lightning Round' to see how fast you can get through it. Just my opinion.
Even if the borrowers told me that they wanted to go very fast, I would deliberately slow things down. It reduces stress, and it reduces errors. And it reduces the number of closings that I can do in a day.
But that's not such a bad thing. I'd rather do 2 closings at $150, than 4 at $75.
Good luck.
| Reply by pan/nd on 1/31/09 9:12pm
Msg #276097
Nothing like an oncoming blizzard, thunderstorm or tornado to speed things up.
Have had all three happen.
Must have shaved 15-20 minutes off each closing.
I successfully eluded the T-storm and tornado...but the blizzard got me.
| Reply by Claudine Osborne on 1/31/09 9:32pm
Msg #276103
Leon, I often wonder what people are skipping when doing closings this fast? Takes me a little while to properly ID, journal etc. After the signing it is a must that you go over everything! I also would rather do quality work than quanity.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/31/09 10:42pm
Msg #276109
It's the quality work that counts, IMO... the kind that people remember (for good reasons) and the kind that make people say, "OK, no problem!" when you ask for more than $125 a job. I consider time well spent doing a quality job is an investment in the future of my business.
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 2/2/09 12:20pm
Msg #276224
I have been called to fix more than a few of the speedsters
loans. In each case, the borrower said the notary rushed them and the extent of the conversation is "sign here, sign here". I always ask and I never have had to clean up after a "slow old guy". Keep in mind that I am a "slow old guy". I allow an hour for each job( depending depending on my perceived difficulty level of the loan) plus travel time between jobs.
| Reply by Les_CO on 1/31/09 9:32pm
Msg #276102
Leon…I agree…However did you ever consider how much time you SAVE by not having to back to get something re-signed, or initialed, or corrected?
The people that hire us don’t care about quantity, they care about QUALITY!! In this, we are akin to surgeons.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/2/09 1:37pm
Msg #276254
"Leon…I agree…However did you ever consider how much time you SAVE by not having to back to get something re-signed, or initialed, or corrected?"
A competent signing agent can fly through a signing and still have it done accurately. It's not how quickly or slowly you go through the docs that counts, it's how good you are at double checking everything at the end that counts.
| Reply by Les_CO on 2/2/09 3:13pm
Msg #276276
I have a friend that has a SS. Last week she had six that had mistakes. She asks for several pages to be faxed back. (yeah, I hate that!), Partly because of mistakes she can catch, and partly because of lost packages. (Some lenders will fund on fax copies while getting replacements) She had two…both UPS. One the notary put the wrong labels on two (transposed) packages, sending each to different, wrong TC’s. The other is still in Kentucky somewhere. The most common signing mistakes were on the FHA loan app. second page where the borrowers sign twice. Either the signers sign once, or where two borrowers, one signs twice, and the other signs once. This is a very common mistake. The others were where the non-borrowing-spouse, signs the DOT, but the notary forgets to print in the name in the notarial block. These errors were made by experienced notary signing agents…not because they are stupid…they were just in a hurry.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/31/09 9:33pm
Msg #276104
I'm with you, Leon.
If I've got a package that needs 30+ signatures, there's no way we're going to be done in 20 minutes without mistakes being made. This is especially true when you have packages that require the borrower to fill out information such as on an identity affidavit. And forget it when you have a reader at the table, especially if it's a loan without a RTC.
| Reply by PAW on 1/31/09 9:54pm
Msg #276106
I fully support going slow or deliberately no matter how long it takes. (Extenuating circumstances aside.) For example, just the other day I had a purchase closing, buyers only, cash deal. Maybe 10 pages to review and sign. But because this was the first time Florida buyers, we took about 30 minutes to go over the papers. Most of the time was spent on the HUD (where all the numbers are). Then the understanding of the affidavits the buyers needed to sign after giving them the oath.
For purchases with mortgages, I plan on at least 90 minutes (for two signers) since there is no 'second chance'. With refi's, about an hour, and reverses about an hour and a half for two signers.
| Reply by Todd/OH on 1/31/09 11:52pm
Msg #276113
All too often -
If you make a mistake because you went too quickly, you turn in sloppy work and you won't get calls. Take the time to make sure it's clean and the "good fee" calls will come.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 3:50am
Msg #276117
I do what's best for the borrower
My pace is dictated by what I observe or what the borrower wants. If they seem cautious, nervous, apprehensive, they're first time buyers, they tell me they've been burned in the past, they're studying every page, then I go slower than usual. Anybody with any observation skills should be able to tell in the first 30 seconds. If they tell me they've done this plenty of times and want to move along, or they tell me they just refinanced two months ago, or tell me they reviewed everything ahead of time, or they want me to just show them where to sign, or they're investors who've purchased 20 homes in the last year, then I don't waste their time pointing out every section of the mortgage or explaining the nuances of a compliance agreement. I go over the note, HUD, TIL, and payment breakdown before we start signing. If it's what they were expecting then I'll go as fast or as slow as they want me to. There's no one size fits all. You use common sense, you pay attention, and you don't go so fast that you're not in control. It's not brain surgery.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 2/1/09 7:56am
Msg #276119
20 min or 60 min. Whatever the borrowers needs is best.
I can't tell you how many times I have been thanked for not dragging out the process when they wanted to get through it fast. I've also been thanked for not rushing them through a package when they needed a little more time to absorb.
You call it observation, I call it reading social cues.
Watching the clock, checking their watch, not going out of their way to make you feel like a guest, mentioning a television program comes on in 30 minutes...those usually mean they are people who value their time and want to get through the process as quickly as possible. As you said, one size doesn't fit all.
| Reply by snoopdogMs on 2/1/09 8:41am
Msg #276123
You nailed it Brenda.
I have to ask this to those that have said they used to close 8-10 a day. I just don't see how this occurred with scheduling all the odd time slots, travel time to and from, borrowers that take longer than normal and backs up the whole day, phone calls to the other borrowers when this occurs, getting all the packages ready to go out, reporting back, etc. etc. Would someone please enlighten how this played out since closings are not a one size fits all. How could you plan a day for that many closings not knowing how any of the above variables might alter the day.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 11:03am
Msg #276135
Re: You nailed it Brenda.
When I was doing 8 a day, I rarely had e-docs. My two main clients sent the packages directly to the borrower ahead of time. Any issues were almost always resolved before the closing. Borrowers had read everything ahead of time, the packages were small, they only had two or three notarized docs, return envelope already included. They were so easy a caveman could do it.
I did 7 in one day earlier this week, all from the same t.c. Four were sent to me well in advance, two were printed directly at the branch where I had multiple closings scheduled back to back, and six of the seven were within 10 minutes of each other. Again, very reasonable size packages, not the bloated garbage that some companies throw on us. They're a trusted client, they do their job correctly, their loan officers do a great job of communicating with their borrowers, so rarely a glitch. No sweat.
| Reply by Les_CO on 2/1/09 10:48am
Msg #276132
Re: I do what's best for the borrower
When I likened us to surgeons, I was not referring to skill, education, income, or difficulty. ( As in: “It’s not rocket science”.) When going under the knife most of us want NOT the cheapest, or the fastest, but the most careful, and precise.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 11:06am
Msg #276136
Just a coincidence Les
I never even saw your comment about surgeons! My brain surgery comment wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular.
| Reply by LynnNC on 2/1/09 1:19pm
Msg #276146
Re: I do what's best for the borrower
Like Alex, I go over the note, HUD, TIL, and payment breakdown before we start signing. After pointing out the key information on those documents, I let the borrowers look at them some more while I copy their driver's license information in my journal. I find that the borrowers are then ready to go through the rest of the loan package without spending much time looking at the docs. I am able to "read" the borrowers after the first couple of documents as to how much I need to describe the docs, or if I can just point where to sign.
| Reply by Julie/MI on 2/1/09 7:31pm
Msg #276165
my personal best was 17 in one day
yeah, as Al said, they were overnight docs and my brother and I were tough competition, if he had 7 then I wanted 8, and so on and so on.
I DID have 17 in one day, and beat my brother by one, although he did later break that record and had 18 in a day.
The deep green loans, hungington loans, many were Helocs and just a few pages, I worked with fass then and servicelink and they had irwin equity loans that were a snap. Also, I was the queen of my county, the only one listed with nna, so my phone never stopped ringing so I wasn't driving far from home. My brother and I would also switch closings if they were closer to where the other one was. Now I couldn't do it now because of my infant and cause my brother got out of the business and there is no friendly competition.
It was crazy, but I have the personality to support that craziness... 
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/2/09 6:19pm
Msg #276314
Re: I do what's best for the borrower
I absolutely agree with you on the pacing.
I did an RM last year where the borrowers were so nervous that the husband was having trouble signing his name. My response was to slow it down and give them an opportunity to get comfortable with the process, describing each doc I was putting in front of them for a signature. If they had questions I was qualified to answer, I answered them - otherwise, it was put the doc aside and call the LO later. The signing took about 45 min. longer than it should have, but it's what they needed.
On the opposite end of the spectrum was a signing I did for an NFL player - he could care less about the paperwork, and spent most of the time at the table on his Blackberry. Whatever I put in front of him, he signed - the only thing he wanted to look at was the HUD-1 and the Note, and even that was "OK, just show me where the numbers are." This was a piggyback, and we were done in about 40 minutes...
You go at the speed your customer needs; it's not about you, it's about them.
| Reply by MW/VA on 2/1/09 8:57am
Msg #276124
I don't think age has anything to do with it, but I see your point in this "high speed" world.
My business approach has always been to provide the borrower with a professional signing experience, and to give them the time a large financial transaction warrants. After all, this is generally everyone's largest investment. I limit the no. of closings I'll do in a day to 3/4.
That's all I feel I can do accurately.
I had to "rush" a REO Purchase w/POA the other day.
The pressure was on from the tc to sign & get the package shipped the same day. I really hate that, because there's always a question in mind that mistakes were made when it is rushed.
Same thing applies to EOM. Often times the rush is on to get things signed by the end of month, only to get calls the week following saying they need to be re-done (not my errors, but problems on their end). It is "old school", but I was always taught that "haste makes waste", and that still hold true.
| Reply by janCA on 2/1/09 9:27am
Msg #276127
The majority of my signings in January were FHA's. 160-200 pages. The shortest time I was at a borrower's was 1.5 hrs. This was a single borrower and he really wanted to whip right through. He said he had done this many times before. Most took at least 2 hrs. and once you hit the title docs, which is what I leave for the end because they are so redundant, ugh, borrowers are really just anxious to get this over and done with. It used to be double many of these docs and now it's tripe, or quadruple.
| Reply by Shoshana Roller on 2/1/09 9:50am
Msg #276129
Yes, the FHAs are definitely taking longer, When I started back in 2002, pacKages were smaller, many were o/n packages. A busy signing agent could do 8-10 a day. Not so any more.
| Reply by KKinNoCal on 2/1/09 10:55am
Msg #276133
I've had borrowers thank me-for speeding things along.
They have told me that the last notary explained every page-and they did not appreciate that?
| Reply by MW/VA on 2/1/09 11:59am
Msg #276141
Re: I've had borrowers thank me-for speeding things along.
There are many court cases out there about people claiming to have not known what they were signing. How the signing is handled is up to you & is your responsibility. It is important to give consideration to the borrower's time, especially if they let you know they have another engagement that they need to get to. No matter how many times they've "done this" each transaction is unique.
| Reply by Julie/MI on 2/1/09 7:33pm
Msg #276166
Re: I've had borrowers thank me-for speeding things along.
Would you please tell us the court cases?
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/2/09 1:55pm
Msg #276259
Re: I've had borrowers thank me-for speeding things along.
"There are many court cases out there about people claiming to have not known what they were signing. How the signing is handled is up to you & is your responsibility."
But it's still possible to give the borrower a good, basic understanding of what they're signing without adding any extra time to the signing.
Apart from reviewing the numbers, which obviously needs a bit of time, most of my borrowers quickly figure out that I know what I'm talking about, so I stick a page, or several pages in front of them, they glance at it and sign it while I give a 1 sentence summary of what it is, and we move to the next page.
Being concise is actually to the benefit of the borrower's understanding. All overexplaining does is increase the chances that you're going to confuse the borrower. A one sentence summary in layman's terms is pretty difficult to make confusing, assuming of course that you're giving the correct information in that one sentence.
| Reply by Michael/NC on 2/1/09 12:39pm
Msg #276143
My profile professes Quality not Quanity. I limit my signings to two per day-one in the am and one in the pm. I know, I also "limit" my income by doing this but I also know I provide a Quality service everytime. I have read on this forum that some people brag about 8 signings per day.
For me there are too many variables to schedule a signing for every 2 hrs of the day. More power to them but I would not want to be one of the borrowers. My signings are stress free, relaxed and what ever the borrower wants or needs they get if it is in my power.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 1:15pm
Msg #276145
Quality does not equal slow
Quality means meeting the customers expectations, whatever that is. Why does slow mean good? Quality includes being efficient. Controlling the flow, not getting off track, being confident, and knowing every document completely so I'm not hemming and hawing. I can tell you most borrowers would be jumping out the window if their closings took 1 1/2 to 2 hours and the companies that hire me don't normally want me taking that long either. Being efficient does not mean rushing the borrower. But no way does a closing need to take so long. My barber, my mechanic, my waitress, my bartender, I don't expect them to rush but I do expect them to be efficient and not waste my time. That's part of providing quality service.
Two closings a day maximum? Well, this clearly isn't your families sole income.
| Reply by Leon_CO on 2/1/09 1:31pm
Msg #276147
I may have been misunderstood.
In response to "what's best for the borrower".
What's best for the borrower isn't necessarily what's best for the closing.
And "slowing things down" doesn't mean "dragging things out". It just means making sure that attention is paid to detail.
Sure, we all learn to read cues from the borrower. If they need time, we give it to them. If they want to just get through it, we do that too. I did a 150-page closing in less than 45 minutes at a restaurant during the borrower's lunch break.
But if the borrower is impatient, and is rushing because they have to be someplace, and they're not signing as instructed because they're jumping the gun and not paying attention, then yes, I will deliberately slow things down and take control to ensure that everything is done properly. I won't let the borrower's haste dictate things.
I would rather take a few minutes longer and get it right, than rush through a signing and have the borrower re-do things, or have to constantly grab documents from the borrower's copies.
Good luck.
P.S. If we always did "what's best for the borrower", some closings might take an entire day.
| Reply by Les_CO on 2/1/09 3:48pm
Msg #276155
Re: I may have been misunderstood.
I had one at a car dealership, for one of the technicians (we use to call them mechanics) we signed in a small lunch room. The guy was in a real hurry (had a car half done). Part way through he started signing without his middle initial. Luckily I was looking at each doc as he signed it, and caught it. (Earlier I had explained about signing as his name was typed on the docs, he said he never signs with his MI) That extra couple of seconds of checking the docs as he signed them, saved me another trip.
I’ve had 20 minute signings, and two hour signings (time at the table) Plus the driving, traffic, weather, etc. I personally do not want to do more than three a day. There was a time a few years ago when I spent a couple of days each EOM, in a local Title Company’s office closing 8-10 a day back-to-back. All the doc’s in a nice pretty package, fresh baked cookies, lunch delivered, hot/cold drinks, a comfortable conference room, no driving, no traffic, no cell phone……those were the days!
PS: If we always did "what's best for the borrower" some closings would NOT happen.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 4:30pm
Msg #276159
I agree. Rushing = Bad. Efficient & Reading Cues = Good. n/m
| Reply by CaliNotary on 2/2/09 1:34pm
Msg #276251
Re: I may have been misunderstood.
"But if the borrower is impatient, and is rushing because they have to be someplace, and they're not signing as instructed because they're jumping the gun and not paying attention, then yes, I will deliberately slow things down and take control to ensure that everything is done properly."
So when it's clear to you that the borrower is in a hurry to get through the signing, your response is to go even slower than you otherwise would have? That just makes you a jerk, not a good signing agent.
Making sure everything is done properly means that you accurately double check things at the end of the signing. It doesn't mean you try to force the borrower into doing the signing a a slower pace than they want to sign and that you're capable of signing. They have every right to sign the stack of docs without reading a single word of it if they choose to do so.
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/1/09 3:27pm
Msg #276154
Re: Quality does not equal slow
I'm with you on this Al. Most of my closings last anywhere from 20-30 minutes, because the brw/buyer/seller has seen their figures in advance, docs are o/n or edocs a day or better in advance. It's mostly direct work with lenders and tc's.
The more direct work I have, the better prepared the signers are IME.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 2/1/09 4:27pm
Msg #276158
That's a great point Misty
90% of my work is directly through title companies. So much less fuss, better communication all the way around, informed borrowers, timely packages, no fluff docs.
| Reply by Julie/MI on 2/1/09 7:22pm
Msg #276164
From the borrower's point of view.....and I'm the borrower
Well Leon, my husband and I had a notary come out to our home for our refi way back.
My husband made me promise not to mention that I was a closer (I wasn't on the 1003 so she wouldn't have been able to gleen that info ahead of time).
This was at the beginning of the refi boom and my business was booming and this lender would not let me get my own notary.
So she was punctual, but didn't call to confirm the appt. until a couple hours before the scheduled time.
Well Leon, out came this woman, with two, T W O roller type briefcases and I'm thinking what the heck is she doing? So long story short, I have her sit at the table and asked her for the docs, (they were overnighted to her), as she was pulling out an adding machine, cell phone, pens, pencils, notary embosser (which we don't even need in our state, and is actually frowned up using as it doesn't reproduce). She said she had to set up first. I would have kicked husband under the table but we have a glass table top and she would have seen me and I was trying to be oh so polite. So then out comes the docs. And she s l o w l y takes them out. Then she removed the binder clip, then she asked us for our licenses 7 minutes have already gone by and I have closings of my own to do. So she begins with the mortgage and she started to read it to us. I was ready to scream....at this pace we wouldn't finish until the next day. I finally said lady, your gonna love us. Give me those papers and I reached over and took them from her and said how I worked in the business since I was a teenager and this was going to be the quickest closing she ever had. Her jaw dropped and I thought she was going to cry from fright. I looked over the HUD and note and then we signed away.
If you deliberately slowed down my closing when I specified I wanted a "Lightning Round" I would have thrown you out of my house and called your company. You don't know what people have going on.
I don't journal and I time IS money and call me greedy, but 4 @$150 is much better than 2 @ $150. And I am accurate. I don't rush, but take cues from the borrower to see if they are going to be readers or speedy signers. I have had closings that they just want the stack in from of them and they sign away, while I watch.
Once I had a client that had 4 quicken loans. one on his primary resident and 3 on his rentals. His daughter had dance lessons and he had to leave in 1/2 hour and you bet I let him have his closings his way. This is one reason I love blue ink.....it helps me see if stuff got missed.
You operate your business the way you want, but some just want it done quickly, in fact, I can honestly say most want it done quickly. If you give them the HUD and the note first and tell them the rest is number crunching and that there shouldn't be any suprises after those two docs.
| Reply by Leon_CO on 2/2/09 8:00am
Msg #276185
Re: From the borrower's point of view.....and I'm the borrower
>> So she begins with the mortgage and she started to read it to us. <<
------------------------------------------
Julie, be serious. We're not talking about reading the documents to the borrower -- word-for-word. Or setting up an adding machine and calculating the figures on the settlement statement.
| Reply by jojo_MN on 2/2/09 1:15pm
Msg #276243
One important item was not brought up by anyone. The Borrower is the person paying your fee. How many people complain because the car mechanic or plumber charges $60-$100 per hour? I wouldn't like it if they just did a rush job so they could fit more into their schedules. I do charge XXX, but I know that the borrowers know what they are signing and give them the respect they deserve. The TC or SS is paying you, but the borrower is paying them.
I never rush because I have another closing. If their documents are late, I might mention that I have another closing in another city at whatever time and that I can either give them the "shortened version", or come back later in the day or evening.
When I arrive at the borrowers house, I usually ask them if they have any time constraints such as work, children or other obligations they need to meet, then have them sign at a speed to fit their schedule. I always start out with the HUD, the note, the TIL and the RTC. I then have them sign all of the documents. JMHO
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