Posted by GA/Atty on 1/16/09 2:04pm
Msg #274740

Signing Central and the Star Ratings.........

I have noticed this before but was reminded of it just now in looking at the comments in Signing Central for Nations Direct. This post isn't about Nations Direct specifically, but they are a good example to use.

Some of their low ratings come from folks who never worked for them, but were simply offended at the fee they were willing to pay. This, in my opinion, does not warrant a 1 star rating. It does not warrant any rating at all, in fact. It makes the rating system less useful and less reliable.

I welcome calls from companies that won't meet my fee. So what? I tell them no thank you, they thank me, and that is that. What if they went on the title-company-rotary site and trashed my abilities as a notary because I wouldn't accept their fee offer?

Another good example is the N3 Notary guy. Folks didn't like his posts on the forum, so some went to Signing Central and gave him a 1 star rating even though they had not worked for him. Not that I care about the effect it may have on N3; rather, my issue is that it makes the ratings less reliable.

Anyway, I think if a company tells you up front the way things are going to be, and you agree to work for them, and they do everything they say they are going to do, they should get a good rating for that particular job.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/16/09 2:21pm
Msg #274744

I agree... I only rate companies I have actually worked for.

Reply by Terri/Fl on 1/16/09 2:30pm
Msg #274747

With all due respect.....

GA/Atty......since (I believe) you are an attorney.....you get a decent closing fee not the $40.00 peanuts they pay everyone else. I recently had a GREAT title company loose an account to a new title company.......and when I discovered the name of this new title company....I called them and tried to register with them. After speaking with the closing department......I was told that they DIDN'T HAVE THE STAFF to schedule closings so they
FARMED OUT the loan scheduling to a signing company. I asked who.....and they stated
Nations Direct.........so this new title company under bid the old title company and
now FARMS out the scheduling to Nations Direct. I used to make $125.00 to $150.00,
a closing from the old title company .......now the new title company wants me to close a loan via Nation Direct for $40.00. Nations Direct deserves a 1 point star since they underbid everyone, keeps most of the money and pays the closer peanuts. If we stick together these LOW BALLERS (Nations Direct) may loose accounts since most EXPERIENCED closers say
NO to them. Quite frankly......I think 1 star to too generous for Nations Direct......yea they pay on time BIG DEAL.......I can make more money with less hassels at McDonalds!

Reply by GA/Atty on 1/16/09 3:00pm
Msg #274760

I don't disagree with you at all... I don't think anyone

should take a $40 or $50 loan signing job.

I am just saying that the rating system would be more useful if it was based on criteria like Marian says; I don't need to use the rating system to tell me if the fee they offer is good or not.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/16/09 2:33pm
Msg #274748

I kind of agree. A lot of the 1-star rating that say, "Low ballers" and such are really not helpful. What does "lowball" really mean? For some people here that might mean anything under $125, for others it's $50. Then, there are so many other factors involved, too.

It's better to go in with a neutral 3-star and say, "Spoke with Jane, who was nice, but they couldn't meet my fees. They offered $75 w/edocs." Or, even better... start a thread and link to the the SC profile so people will see it and then judge for themselves if they want to take the lower fees. The stars really should be for actual experience, IMO.


The fact is that $75 may not be good enough for some people here, but it is for others and I've always been bothered by the attitude that everyone accepting lower fees must somehow be the scourge of the notary world or something. Yes, we all know that some services will offer the least amount possible in order to maximize their profits... but they're businesses just like we are. If somebody feels as if a $75 signing is good enough, then it's good enough for them. Their business decisions are theirs, not yours. And an agreement between two other parties is really none of your business.

Penalizing a service for regularly offering $60 signings is a bit egotistical. If you don't want to work for them... don't. They should be penalized for poor treatment, excessive handholding requirements, late or no pays.

I know there are plenty of notaries right here at NotRot who would gladly take regular $75 signings from a service that pays promptly with 14 days.

In fact, I remember reading a blog on ActiveRain not long ago that discussed something like this.

Here's the link: http://activerain.com/blogsview/232810/When-you-can-Work

It's all in how the numbers work for each individual and how it benefits them personally. One man's disgusting lowball offer might just be enough to pay another guy's heating bill.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/09 4:41pm
Msg #274779

Well Toby, maybe you and Joe would feel differently if Atlanta Signatures opened an office in Savanna, and started doing closings for $100?
Maybe Nations Direct meets YOUR fees, because they must, but what about the rest of us?
What about the “Good” SS’s out there trying to compete, and pay their notaries say $125, and in comes Nations, and tells the Title Co. don’t pay that SS $200. We’ll do it for $150! We only pay our notaries $40, and we can make it on a $110 margin. We require a lot of fax-backs, and hand holding because only desperate Notaries will work for those fees, but don’t worry we have thousands. So the “Good” SS that pays $125, and keeps $75, now loses a customer, and maybe goes out of business? And we Notaries that were making $125 from the “good” guys are now left with $40 or nothing.
ANYONE that works for Nations Direct should realize that they are directly contributing to the demise of this (Notary Signing Agent) profession. Just as the NNA with its get-rich-easy newbie mills churning out thousands of unqualified “Signing Agents” has by this surfeit, enabled the existence of these unscrupulous companies, but also had disastrous effects on the “Signing Agent” business. These No-pay, deadbeat, and lowball companies will if not stopped, eventually cause an end to qualified SS’s and SA’s and many smaller Title Co’s. These shoddy, cutthroat, unethical business practices should have no place in this business. What I foresee is one or two very Large Title Companies, doing nationwide business, with their own “in house” signing divisions (like First American, and FASS) with illiterate, inexperienced Notaries, doing signings and delivering pizzas at the same time. And Nations Direct will be gone along with the rest of us. JMO

Reply by GA/Atty on 1/16/09 5:08pm
Msg #274785

Again, I pretty much agree with everything you said

I just think there is a big difference between a company that tells you they pay $50 and then pays you $50 and one that tells you they will pay $150 and then pays you nothing.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/09 5:46pm
Msg #274790

I concure

I concur. A BIG difference legally. One is a thief, one is not. And your point about signing central seems justified. But think about the effect these low-pay companies have on this business.
Please do not take my comments personally.
Actually I applaud your choice of education, career, and business; and the location thereof. I also applaud your choice of professional organizations (Bar Association) and their excellent lobbing ability with your States Legislators (although I expect fact that most of them are attorneys too, helps) to make Georgia an ‘attorney only’ State.
But I sort of hear this subtle “Let them eat cake.” in the background?
Think about you NOT being an attorney, and trying to make a living working as just a Notary Signing Agent, in say… CA, or CO, or Nebraska, and how the combination, of the glut of new SA’s, the sub-prime melt-down, and the proliferation of no-pay, low-pay companies has effected this business, and your livelihood in the past couple of years. I know you would never be in this position, just as the Royalty of past would never be Peasants….but just think about it?

Reply by Les_CO on 1/16/09 10:01pm
Msg #274815

Re: I concur/correction

First…. Yup… I can’t type or spell (concure/concur)
Just to clarify my last post. I do not fault Toby for working with Nations Direct. He sure doesn’t do $40 signings! (more like $400). Although in some of his last posts he says : (to paraphrase) “They meet my fee, and pay on time, so I can’t fault them.” Okay, but unfortunately most of us are not in his position. I guess I can’t fault Nations Direct, for trying to be the cheapest SS in the country? Although their chiseling ways set me off a bit. It’s the unaware Notaries that call themselves “Signing Agents” that help keep Nations Direct in business by accepting these ridiculous fees, and idiotic rules, that I have a problem with. Don’t you realize that you can’t make money doing a signing for $40? I know times are tough, but working at a loss will not help. Remember the borrower doesn’t pay any less, Nations Direct just keeps more.