Posted by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 6:57am
Msg #274898
eSigning at Starbucks
I got a call to do an eSigning. It's scheduled for tomorrow morning. When I called the number that was listed for the borrowers, the person answered 'Starbucks'. I asked to speak with the borrower, thinking that perhaps he worked there. The person told me that there is no one there by that name.
I checked the 1003 and called that number. It turns out that the signing company gave me the phone number of the location, not the borrower's home phone number.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm hesitant to do an eSigning at a Starbucks. And I expressed my concerns to the borrower. He agreed to do it at his home instead. The signing company had no problem with it. 'Just get it done' was their attitude.
One of the concerns I had was security -- keeping the borrower's information out of sight from people at adjoining tables, or people passing by. In fact, I hesitate to use a laptop in any public place.
Another concern I had was the whole issue of logistics. Every Starbucks is different. Some can be very small, especially the ones that are part of a bookstore or supermarket. I have never been to that particular Starbucks location and didn't want to take a chance on having no room to set up the laptop, or enough space to sign the paper documents.
All in all, I could foresee problems with doing an eSigning at a Starbucks.
|
Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/18/09 7:15am
Msg #274899
I just did an e-sign at Starbucks. The borrower lives in another state but was here temporarily for a work training program. There is one large table at this Starbucks, and I was lucky to snag it but we could have done it at one of the smaller tables if we had to. There were hardly any people in the Starbucks at the time of our appt (4 PM on a Friday) so it worked out well. I just pointed to things and said, "This is the amount of your loan. This is your interest rate."
The biggest problem we had was that the light was streaming in at a bad angle, despite the shade that was pulled over the window.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 7:24am
Msg #274901
It's good that your eSigning worked out well.
Something that I didn't mention was that the borrowers would no doubt want to have coffee. Sorry, coffee and my laptop computer don't mix. Save the coffee for after the signing.
|
Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/18/09 7:33am
Msg #274902
Leon, I do understand your concerns about privacy and such when signing at Starbucks. It shows you are a conscientious notary signing agent.
Having coffee at one of the smaller Starbucks tables would definitely be a problem. Logistics would also be more difficult at a smaller table with two borrowers plus the notary.
Panera is a good choice for a restaurant signing, if you are lucky enough to have a Panera near you. Lots of tables available, and you can usually find one in a corner. And if it's busy the sound of conversation throughout the restaurant makes it difficult for someone else to overhear your particular conversation unless they made a concerted effort.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 8:25am
Msg #274903
Yes, there are 2 borrowers.
I've done a few closings at Panera. I've always enjoyed the experience. Usually I have been able to get a booth at the window.
I don't have a problem with closings in restaurants and coffee shops. I've done a lot of them. But adding the computer changes things. And my wireless modem is my cell phone, so that is one more thing that has to be on the table.
There's something else. I have yet to do an eSigning and the borrower was aware of it in advance. I asked the husband if he was aware that this was an eSigning, and all that was involved. He said that his wife 'mentioned something about it', but he had no idea.
I came across this article. It has some good information for any of you who will be doing an eSigning in a public place such as Starbucks:
----------------------------------
'Using Your Laptop at Starbucks: Is it Safe?'
http://antivirus.about.com/od/wirelessthreat1/a/starbucks.htm
|
Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/18/09 8:39am
Msg #274904
<< There's something else. I have yet to do an eSigning and the borrower was aware of it in advance. >>
This was my first e-sign. My borrower did not seem to be aware of the e-sign portion either!
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 8:52am
Msg #274905
>> This was my first e-sign. <<
------------------------------------------------
Congratulations! It's good that your first one was a positive experience.
You might also want to add to your profile that you have experience with esignings.
|
Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/18/09 8:57am
Msg #274906
That's probably a good idea. I was planning to terminate my aircard service in April after the two year contract is up. That aircard has nowhere near paid for itself! I'll add e-sign to my profile and if it proves fruitful, I'll keep the darn thing.
|
Reply by MW/VA on 1/18/09 9:05am
Msg #274907
Ironic, I just dumped my aircard & paid the early termination fee. There haven't been nearly enough esignings to warrant the cost. Many times we ended up doing it on the borrowers computer anyway, and there is always wi-fi. Among the criteria, remember that you have to have Internet Explorer to connect the Amtrust's site--it won't connect with Firefox.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:13am
Msg #274908
>> I'll add e-sign to my profile and if it proves fruitful, I'll keep the darn thing. <<
--------------------------------------
Yes, and definitely figure that into your fee. This company wanted to pay me only $100. I said I'll need a lot more because of all that's involved. She said, 'Why? I thought eSignings were a lot easier.'
I explained that there is just as much printing as with a paper closing. In fact, there is more if you print the backup documents (104 pages in this case). And if the esigning goes well, I get to shred all of those 104 pages afterwards. There is also the cost of the wireless modem that I figure into it. And of course there's the simple matter of just having to haul that laptop computer, set it up, etc. So if you ask me which is easier, I would definitely say that a paper closing is, until they can ever eliminate all of the paper that is involved.
She agreed to a higher fee.
Hopefully you were well-compensated.
Good luck.
|
Reply by CF on 1/18/09 9:25am
Msg #274909
If the borrower is fine with doing a signing at a puclic place- then so am I. Why is it your job to be concerned with their privacy- when they agreed to do it in public? Really, a lot of people do not care if others know about their loan amount or their interest rate. I have had some people that care- and they have already looked over everything and just sign. I dont get it??? I show up where I am told to go and get docs signed- that is my, one and only, job!
|
Reply by MW/VA on 1/18/09 9:33am
Msg #274911
Yes, I did a signing (large VA pkg.) the other night at IHOP. The borrower's weren't a bit concdrned about their "privacy". It is about being discreet--pointing to loan amt., interest, etc.
After all, you're not saying their ss #s out loud, or anything.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 10:38am
Msg #274931
>> Yes, I did a signing (large VA pkg.) the other night at IHOP. <<
-----------------------------------------
Was it an eSigning? That's what this topic is about.
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/18/09 9:33am
Msg #274913
I've got no problem signing at a Starbucks
I wouldn't even think about trying to convince a borrower into changing the location that they chose for their own signing. Their are plenty of reasons that a borrower might not want to do a signing at their home. Maybe for their own security reasons, they don't want a stranger in their house. It's not up to me to question why they chose a particular location. I serve at THEIR convenience.
When I have a signing in a public place, I just use a little bit of common sense and basic awareness. It's certainly easy to see if someone is crooning their neck or something. I get there a little early, scope out the area, and wait for a corner or out of the way area to open up. I keep my voice down, and I make sure I don't say any of their loan terms out loud. I just point, "here's your interest rate, here's your payoff, here's your payment..."
Those of us who have been in this industry for a long time have closed in about every place imaginable. I've had signings in bars, cars, restaurants, bowling alleys, airports, coffee shops, park benches, and more. I go where they tell me to go.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:41am
Msg #274916
Re: I've got no problem signing at a Starbucks
>> Those of us who have been in this industry for a long time have closed in about every place imaginable. I've had signings in bars, cars, restaurants, bowling alleys, airports, coffee shops, park benches, and more. I go where they tell me to go. <<
-------------------------------------------------------------------
And don't forget car washes! 
I've been doing this a long time too. And I have closed in every conceivable location. I too will go where I'm told to go.
But with an eSigning, the borrowers don't always realize what is involved. So I tell them.
If after that, they still insist on signing in a public place, that is their choice. I will honor it.
|
Reply by LynnNC on 1/18/09 10:00am
Msg #274927
I had a closing on the hood of a pick-up truck...
...in the sun with the temperature at 95 degrees!
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 10:53am
Msg #274932
Re: I had a closing on the hood of a pick-up truck...
>> ...in the sun with the temperature at 95 degrees! <<
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where did you place your laptop computer? Mine would have fried in that heat.
|
Reply by Teddog/CO on 1/18/09 9:48am
Msg #274921
MichiganAl
I agree with you 100% We just do our job when and where we are needed. Over the years we've all done signings in some pretty strange places. The one I will never forget was at the Zoo on a bench. The gentleman was a trainer/keeper for the Big Cats a "little" loud but we got it done. Pretty interesting and a free trip to the Zoo
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:58am
Msg #274926
Re: MichiganAl
>> The one I will never forget was at the Zoo on a bench. <<
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep in mind, we're talking about eSignings -- not paper signings.
When you get some experience with eSignings, you'll understand the difference, and all that is involved.
|
Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/18/09 7:49pm
Msg #274967
"experience with eSignings, and all that is involved"
Huh? I've been doing esignings for 6-ish months, and find they are not so involved once you know the routine. In and out in an hour or less.
Most docs are viewed and signed online, plus signature on hard copies of aff's and mtg/dot, occasionally a few more.
The biggest issues I have had with esignings are internet access.
I think they are a piece of cake, with very little "involved".
They are handled just a little differently. And borrowers have been very prepared.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 11:08pm
Msg #274988
Re: "all that is involved"
"All that is involved" doesn't imply that it's difficult.
What it means is that the borrowers that I have done eSignings for didn't know in advance that I would be bringing a laptop computer and that they would be signing electronically with a mouse. And that space would be needed for the laptop. If they don't know this in advance, then they also don't know that internet access is required, and the possible security risks that it poses.
And with 2 borrowers and a signing agent, you have 3 people trying to see the same laptop screen, sitting at a small coffee table in a coffee shop. In a situation like that, the borrowers may be more comfortable doing this in their home. And if they don't have a spacious table in their home, I carry a portable table in my car.
With a paper signing, I don't even need a table.
Also, with an eSigning the laptop screen is constantly up. Anyone in the coffee shop can see the screen. All that an overly curious person has to do is take a table beside us. I know a lot of borrowers who would get extremely paranoid knowing that someone can see their loan documents. And I have encountered at least one borrower who told me that their identity was stolen. Perhaps the borrowers won't feel so comfortable in a situation like that if they knew in advance "all that is involved".
You also have to make a copy of the electronically signed documents for the borrowers. With paper signings you do that before going to the closing. With an esigning you do it AT the closing. If the borrowers are in their own home and they have a computer, then you can simply transfer them from one computer to another using a USB drive.
No, eSignings are not difficult. But there is definitely more involved than working only with paper documents. And you can't deny this.
Good luck.
|
Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/20/09 2:27pm
Msg #275150
Im denying it.
When we are closing on the brws computer, I hit "save" and save it to their computer.
When closing on my own, I hit "save" to drive ""e" and save it to a thumb drive. Hand over at the completion. Unless the brw wants it on paper. Then I print at home.
<<<Also, with an eSigning the laptop screen is constantly up. Anyone in the coffee shop can see the screen>>>
So what? You weren't the one to decide to close at Starbucks. The brws are well aware that Starbucks has a restaurant atmosphere.
If you are that worried, just talk them out of it.
Just tell them that you are "the one", and I am sure they will bow and scrape.
If they don't, just keep talking til they do your bidding. You'll still get the last word.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:35am
Msg #274914
>> If the borrower is fine with doing a signing at a puclic place- then so am I. <<
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that I **insisted** on doing it someplace else.
I said that I expressed my concerns. And since this borrower wasn't even aware that this was an eSigning, and all that was involved, these were concerns that he wasn't even aware of.
After listening, he agreed to do it at his home. It was **his** choice. If he insisted on doing it at Starbucks, then that's fine with me.
-------------------------------------------------------------
>> Why is it your job to be concerned with their privacy ...? <<
----------------------------------------------------------
I don't know. It's just an old habit that's hard to break.
Good luck.
|
Reply by Terri Silipo on 1/18/09 9:28am
Msg #274910
I got a call to do a signing at a house that was occupied by a renter, not the owner. I found this out when I called to confirm the signing address. The owner said he lived in Orlando, which is out of my travel radius. He agreed to meet me at a Panera bread. We did an e-signing there with no problems.
|
Reply by 101livescan on 1/18/09 9:41am
Msg #274917
I've done esignings mostly in the borrowers' homes. Starbucks locations are typically cramped for privacy, and the noise level a little high, but they always have a computer desk, electrical outlets to plug into. As long as the borrower doesn't mind meeting in a public place, go for it. It would take someone getting down to the screen level to see private information about the borrower, and most of the click through docs don't bear ss#s, only property address, loan number, etc. The escrow and other paper docs, have ss#s, only a couple...Leon, PM me, I have some information for you as a first timer. Also, people I've met with are so taken with the electronic event, they ask questions about why an esigning, etc.
Kind of unique, they aren't that frequent yet.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:45am
Msg #274920
>> Leon, PM me, I have some information for you as a first timer. <<
------------------------------------------
This isn't my first eSigning.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 9:52am
Msg #274924
'Using your laptop at Starbucks: Is it Safe?
I think people overlooked some of the earlier posts, so I'll post this again.
---------------------------------
'Using Your Laptop at Starbucks: Is it Safe?'
http://antivirus.about.com/od/wirelessthreat1/a/starbucks.htm
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/18/09 8:07pm
Msg #274970
Did you read the article you linked to?
Per the article -
"But What About Starbucks?
T-Mobile provides the wireless services at Starbucks. T-Mobile Hotspots go one step above basic WEP encryption, offering 802.1x authentication standards and WiFi Protected Access (WPA). You do have to pay for the service, but remember that you are also paying for the better security it offers."
So Starbucks is more secure than doing it at the borrower's kitchen table where any neighbor can possibly intercept the signal, not less secure. They provide an extra layer of encryption.
I think we all know that laptops pose a risk in security. That's another reason why these e-signings are ill conceived.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 10:20pm
Msg #274987
Re: Did you read the article you linked to?
"You do have to pay for the service, ..."
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/18/09 11:24pm
Msg #274989
So?
I pay for parking when I have to meet someone in some spots in Detroit or Ann Arbor or when I go to some hospitals for appointments. I sometimes pay a toll when I have to meet someone on Grosse Ile. Pay a few bucks for the security of the borrowers that you've stated you're so concerned about. Sounds like your concern ends when it costs you. Anyway, I doubt any company that hired you would balk at paying that bill if you submitted it to them.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/18/09 11:37pm
Msg #274990
The decision has been made
Why are you making so much out of this? The borrowers have already decided that they would prefer to do it in their home. Let it go.
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/19/09 12:15am
Msg #274993
Re: The decision has been made
I don't know. Maybe I think it's funny that you have to get the last word after every single comment, especially when someone disagrees with you, and I'm curious to see how far you'll talk yourself into a circle to do it.
How about I let it go and you stop posting your mind numbing musings and faux expert advice?
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/19/09 12:19am
Msg #274994
Re: The decision has been made
This started out as a friendly discussion between me and CopperheadVA. I just don't see why you want to turn it into an argument. Especially when there is no point to it. That's all.
And if it means that much to you, you can have the last word.
|
Reply by jba/fl on 1/19/09 12:26am
Msg #274995
The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
If you wanted a private conversation then it shouldn't have been here. Should have "gone Live" or to pm's. This is a public forum so any of us could answer, respond or query. And with many topics, hijacking is normal as all aspects are explored from the resulting conversation. Too many times you published your dismay that only e-signings were being discussed; to moderate your musings, you need to direct it to private means, because the rest of us enjoy discourse on many facets of this notary world. JMO
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/19/09 12:35am
Msg #274997
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
I think you deserve a response. So sorry if you don't get the last word.
It wasn't intended to be a private conversation. CopperheadVA responded, and I found reason to respond back. And for a while, it was a nice exchange. I had to check to see if I was still on Notary Rotary.
If a person wants to, they can turn anything into a fight.
But is it necessary?
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/19/09 12:56am
Msg #274999
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
No one wants to turn anything into a fight. When you give out bad information, bad advice, or use this forum as a personal ad campaign, you're going to get called out on it. Your posts almost always fall under one of those three categories.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/19/09 12:59am
Msg #275000
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
Now you're trying to start a fight, because it wasn't necessary to say that.
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/19/09 1:30am
Msg #275001
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
Oh please, put your big boy pants on Leon. Just in the last week you've called Cali dumb and stupid, told Teddog and Marilyn that they're small minded, and told me that I should recognize a joke when I look in the mirror. Are you seriously going to act like you've got the high road on anybody? You've argued with an attorney over the law, argued that you know more than a doctor when it comes to diagnosing dementia, stated that you're concerned about security at Starbuck's and then posted an article that says the exact opposite, you've blasted the forum with posts when you've needed your web hits to go up, and you post your daily thoughts and self flattering posts like it's your own personal blog. Sorry, those are the facts.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/19/09 1:41am
Msg #275002
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
I never said that I was 'Mr. Nice Guy'.
But if you attack me, then of course, the gloves come off and I'll fight back.
I would rather not.
This could have been a very good discussion about eSignings in public places. But instead you want to turn it into an attack.
Why?
There are ways to respectfully disagree with someone. If you have a question, I will do the best I can to give you an honest answer. It's possible that we can still disagree. But there is no reason to turn things into a fight.
I think it's much better to have peaceful, civil discussions instead of scornful arguments. That's just my opinion.
|
Reply by MichiganAl on 1/19/09 1:59am
Msg #275004
Just stating facts. And speaking of facts...
Weren't you supposedly done about six posts ago? You really do have an incurable case of lastworditis. But I guess that's what you consider a respectful conversation. One where you have the last say.
Nighty night.
|
Reply by MW/VA on 1/19/09 8:03am
Msg #275009
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
Yes, IMO this says it all. This forum is for open discussions. If you don't want the feedback, don't post. It is not for personal blogs, or for anyone who feels they need to control the content of the discussion. Try reading the rules for posting. We even try to joke off some of the attacks, which are totally out of line. Yes, it was Leon that got into the "name calling". What gets me on these is that we are dealing with someone who won't even link their name to their profile & thereby risk exposure.
|
Reply by Leon_CO on 1/19/09 8:19am
Msg #275010
Re: The last word? Mine, unless you respond.
>> ... we are dealing with someone who won't even link their name to their profile & thereby risk exposure. <<
-----------------------------------------------
The irony of your statement is that, there are many who think I've gotten too much exposure, and think I'm trying to get "hits on my website". That is why I no longer link.
Good luck.
P.S. I'm sure that if you do a search on this site, you'll no doubt find posts that have a link. But whatever you do, PLEASE DO NOT VISIT MY WEBSITE!! It might upset MichiganAl.
|
Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/19/09 9:57am
Msg #275020
I just won $10 .... n/m
|
Reply by MW/VA on 1/19/09 12:35pm
Msg #275049
Re: I just won $10 ....
Cool--glad to hear someone got something out of this nonsense.
|
