Posted by Becca_FL on 3/20/09 9:22pm
Msg #281556

20/20 a must watch tonight re: foreclosure rescue companies

and a former hedge fund manager turned pizza delivery guy. The sad thing is...he, I, and many many others don't make the National unemployment statistics because we are, and have been self employed. If you are reading this post, you know the National unemployment rate is much larger than what is reported.

Thankfully, I have been able to diversify and the wedding business is BOOMING since many dual income partnerships have decided to couple up.

I still grieve for the NSAs that I personally know that have lost their homes and their livelihood.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/20/09 9:39pm
Msg #281558

Thanks, Becca. On the flip side of that, there are probably many of us that are able to pay our mortgages & bills because we are in this business.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/20/09 10:49pm
Msg #281567

"The sad thing is...he, I, and many many others don't make the National unemployment statistics because we are, and have been self employed."

I don't know how accurate this info is, but I heard that if you accounted for everyone who was unemployed but not counted in the statistics, or underemployed (such as someone taking a pizza delivery job because they can't get a "real" job), the unemployment statistic would be more like 16%.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/21/09 5:56am
Msg #281576

NBC on Sunday at 7 PM will also be an interesting show...

It's supposed to delve into all the shady practices that led to this mess, such as a single mom with a stated income loan that shows she makes 10K per month, and other examples.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 3/21/09 7:51am
Msg #281582

Becca FL I was watching 20/20 also. It was just heart breaking to watch. "Keep your day job" newbies. I will never give-up my second business that gives me a steady income. Those of us that have been notaries for a long time saw the best of times and now the the very worst of times. JMO don't get sucked-in with this "spurt" of signings because the interest rates have dropped so low. Please keep a second "day" job or second income that offers you a steady dependable income.
I had to turn the TV off at the "Tent Cities" portion, just couldn't stand to see the suffering anymore. It just turns your stomach to see this happening in the USA and again happening to the average American working person. Sad, Sad.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/21/09 8:13am
Msg #281585

Agree w/Teddog on this...

"don't get sucked-in with this "spurt" of signings because the interest rates have dropped so low." Enjoy it while it lasts, but don't start thinking it's going to equal the boom years (2000-2004)...it's just another hiccup.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 3/21/09 8:22am
Msg #281586

Re: Agree w/Teddog on this...

Lee/AR no doubt about that "hiccup." My motto after this mess is "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

That's the biggest reason my fees are set, don't want to pay my fee? Just keep Notary shopping.

Have a great weekend

Reply by anita55109 on 3/21/09 9:07am
Msg #281593

Has anyone been approached by the company exposed on 20/20? I have not had experience with that particular one but another company. I've been asked 3 times to perform a modification but none of them have materialized. The last one brought me to a person who was only classified as seriously delinquent. He showed me his monthly statement and they were taking $1200.00 per month for his escrow. We discussed that and after finding out his taxes were $2400 per YEAR and this change had happened 7 months ago. I advised him to contact his morgage company as something was wrong with his escrow account causing him to be unable to make his payment any longer. It was probably out of my job classification to advise him not to do this modification but I still have to sleep at night. Two weeks later he called me to thank me for my advice and the mortgage company agreed with him and had just called him to tell him his payments were back down to where he could make them and he had enough money in his escrow to catch up his delinquent payments. Why didn't someone at this modification company ask him this question before they took this so far?

Reply by Teddog/CO on 3/21/09 10:44am
Msg #281602

Anita

JMO You did what used to be called "the moral or right thing to do." It will never cease to amaze me that people don't Read their billing statements to see what they are being charged. Every time you find something that doesn't make any sense to you call that company and get an answer to your questions. Good grief how could someone not notice a error like that??? Trust me the general public is going to be asking a lot more questions and demanding answers.
God bless you Anita for having the guts to do the right thing

Reply by KJ/IA on 3/21/09 4:16pm
Msg #281620

I really don't think it matters where a person works, whether for themselves or others, what their job is or how much they make or if they have 1, 2 or 3 jobs. Good grief, living on less than you make & not spending every last penny you make & instead saving some money, for any type of emergency, whether loss of job or medical, would have benefited lots of people. Greed & getting lots of crap & stuff sure has ruined alot of lives.

I never once thought that my income was guaranteed.

There are several situations that I would feel sorry for, but most broke people have done it to themselves.

Reply by Flo on 3/21/09 5:42pm
Msg #281622

Your point that greed has ruined a lot of lives is true. There has been greed on the part of homebuyers and borrowers but the biggest portion of the greed belonged to a lot of dishonest sales and finance people who took advantage of some naive or under-educated people who lacked the understanding and knowledge to protect themselves. As a licensed Realtor and Title Insurance Producer, I have seen a lot of unscrupulous people take advantage of people who signed up for mortgages that they could not afford and did not financially qualify for. In the past, people who could not qualify for certain mortgages were protected from such processes by the government, but when the industry was essentially deregulated, it gave a lot of dishonest people carte blanc to take advantage of the system and left a lot of people holding the bag. A lot of money went under the table to some dishonest wheelers and dealers and we now see the fall-out.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/22/09 12:54am
Msg #281662

Exactly, Flo. I believe many of those contracts can be

found voidable, or modifiy-able, on the grounds of unclean hands, and arms-length deficiencies.

As to being "too big to fail." I say, break them apart - insurance to insurance; banking to banking; investing to investing; etc. Bring back the safeguards and reglations, and let the money flow ALL through the populace. Not just be slurped up to the top. Their uncountable trillion$ stolen from a generation doesn't need to trickle down, it needs to literally rain in torrents.

Come to think of it, Mega-Wages - million$ of dollar$ for any employee, is, really, out of whack. Nobody's worth thousands of bucks a minute 24/7. Nobody. Especially when they can pay $o much to make sure regular work-a-day workers can't organize to negotiate at the table for livable wages and benefits and grow the middle class again.

I'm not against wealth, I just want a level playing field.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/22/09 4:08am
Msg #281667

your theory is outdated by about a generation ...

Maybe it's a different reality where you live, but here in MI where I live - this theory is base-less. I know A LOT of people who are broke, and not one person who "did it to themselves". Our reported unemployment rate is 18.2 (Detroit is 22.2), and those numbers are off by 2-3 TIMES reality (depending on what methodology is used, and who is reporting it). Back as far as 2004, if we did a loan for anyone working for one of the "Big 3", we had to reconfirm employment the DAY of closing. This downward spiral in the economy has been chewing into our lives a long, long time. You want to go to some favorite business here? Better call first, to see if they still exist.

Of those I personally know, job-loss and divorce initiated their demise, neither of which a person chooses to 'do to themselves'. Take Person A - 26 years working for the gov't, one day job is GONE, age 50 - already 2 years into trying to fight the financial struggle after divorce, strapped with a house 100,000 short now in equity, holding onto the whole moral struggle and refusing to walk away, surely will be in foreclosure after spending every last dime on house payments. Will be forced to leave the state to find a job, leaving 2 children and one committed relationship to the woes of 'long distance'.

Person B - young, homeless, living here & there, last 4 jobs in supplier machine shops ended on day 89, THIS goes on around here all day long, gave the 'nice' car back to the bank, bought a $300 one - wonder how far that'll drive? Hope the latest job will go past 90 days, but most likely WILL because it offers no insurance benefits. One injury/illness away from being ruined both now AND for years into the future.

I could go on and on. Grandma - age 92, living AT HOME, has just about lost all the investment money she had, which was considerable. Darn her, she did this to herself?! Mom & Dad will take care of her, but THEY have lost over 50% retirement investments, self-employed biz (radio advertising) down 75%, my dad is 72 - should he send his resume out? Girlfriend, 52, severe R/A, is a MAIL CARRIER (and we have winter here), husband killed self, would never survive on disability but that day is not far away - when she loses the house, I'll remind her it was all her fault.

"Most broke people have done it to themselves" - struck a nerve, I think you might be looking through a very narrow lens.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/22/09 8:35am
Msg #281672

Re: your theory is outdated by about a generation ...

Thanks for the post, Renee. I agree that it is no longer an issue of "people did it to themselves & should suffer the consequences". Does that apply to those that Bernie Madoff ripped off? IMO greed always creates need.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/22/09 9:54am
Msg #281681

Re: your theory is outdated by about a generation ...

I also agree. What about people who lived within their means and had significant savings? If they lose their job and are unable to replace it, that's their fault? What if they haven't lost their jobs but, like us, their incomes have taken a significant dive?

I saw a phrase not too long ago that is soooo true. Something like ... one snapshot does not represent the entire photo album.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/22/09 12:37pm
Msg #281690

I think both theories are right.

There have always been instances where unfortunate circumstances have led to foreclosure and poverty. While I believe this is increasingly the case, especially in the areas hardest hit by recession, I also believe it is largely the result of the actions of others who brought on their own problems, and have brought down responsible citizens with them. One theory being true led to the other theory being true.

When people treat their home as a piggy bank, and continue for years to live off of the equity created by an artificial bubble, they are enjoying a life style they have not earned. And, thus, there is no real basis in production or service for the economy that their spending helps to prop up. When the fake prosperity comes to end, as it inevitably would, so do the jobs held by those willing to earn their prosperity. And now they, too, are in peril.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/22/09 4:05pm
Msg #281694

Thank you, Renee, well put. Blaming the victims... I

just don't understand it, but I guess it makes some people feel better.

Medical bills are a huge culprit in foreclosures. The media is complicit in the whole rotten mess - ignoring the elephants in the room while touting the 'soundness' of Big Business. Deregulation set the stage for the eventual fall. And corporate greed was fed by insulation from oversight.

There are so many things and people to blame - but the vast majority of victims? Hardly. Same mindset for Katrina/Rita victims - it's their fault for living on the Gulf Coast. Phhfft.

There are tens of thousands of folks represented by those in your post. And with the exception of a relative few, they truly didn't 'do it to themselves.'

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/22/09 5:09pm
Msg #281696

Re: Thank you, Renee, well put. Blaming the victims... I

I agree. I wish I could remember the statistic about how many foreclosures are the result of unforeseen medical issues. How many of you could survive financially if you or a family member experienced major injuries from a car accident that involved a long hospitalization - or a heart attack - or a cancer diagnosis? Some would argue that they should have done XYZ to prevent that from ocurring. While we can take actions to reduce the likelihood, sometimes these things occur randomly, due to events outside of our control.

I also agree that many people have acted irresponsibly and that others are paying the costs of their poor decisions, as well. but, I don't think that justifies blaming every person for the circumstances they've found themselves in, or just shrugging our shoulders and saying "too bad" to all the suffering going on around us.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/22/09 6:13pm
Msg #281707

Geez, that's just immediate family, too ... if I move to ...

the next concentric circle ... the cousins alone would blow your mind. Michigan has always been the 'harbinger' as they say ...we're the litmus strip ...

The few at fault - the top 1% who controll(ed) what, about 90% of our country's wealth? Yes, no debate, they have blight & waste & heartache, desperation & surely lives on their hands.

If anyone's of a mind - a fairly broad mind, willing to expand a little into perhaps unfamiliar lands ... try reading Charles Eisenstein's 4-part series on Money & the Crisis of Civilization, at the Reality Sandwich website. A real mind-blower, shakes the foundation of the basis of everything you ever thought was 'true & real'.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/22/09 8:53pm
Msg #281715

Holey moley, Renee - what a great read - and the comments

were incredible as well.

Many thanks for passing that along, Renee.

That 1%? The obscenely rich? Lolling about on palatial yachts eating bon-bons, and being 'free.' Empty-eyed and black-hearted, they are such ugly people, bereft of sight and soul-less. Barely human.

Meanwhile:

Six fat robbins
all rosey-breasted and chirpy,
perched in wide disperson
among barren limbs -
patiently watching
the budding out -
the new green life -
each one, a pink blossom
-like an idea-
within.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/22/09 9:25pm
Msg #281716

Susan, do you really believe that?

Perhaps you are ignoring the elephant in the room. During the period between 2003 and 2006, did you not see more cash out refinances, with interest rates increased, than refinances reducing interest rates? Maybe you saw more of the latter, but I was writing a lot of escrow checks to borrowers during that period. There at least one case of a currency exchange calling me to verify a check in excess of $30,000.00. These people didn't even have a bank account! I will concede that that is not the norm, but if we are sharing anecdotes, this is one among many.

I don't believe that the innocent victims outnumber the complicit. I think that is far from the truth. But, if you can explain the sudden influx of catastrophic medical bills, I will listen. I do believe that many people's homes have been put in jeopardy by the greedy homeowners and, yes, the greedy corporations too.

I certainly wouldn't suggest that the corporations and banks are without blame. But show a little bit of honesty. And, since you bring up deregulation, would you mind citing the specific deregulation that brought on this mess?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/23/09 1:14am
Msg #281732

You bet I do. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Do a little research on medical foreclosures. It will blow your mind. Same with the homeless polulation. The realities will astound you.

The kids in the Rush sandbox don't get out much. Don't see much. Don't hear much.

Deregulation? Same scenario. Do a little research. It's all documented for you to see.

But, you have to get out of the sandbox and out into the real world to answer your questions.

I really believe that.

Spring is a time of birth and renewal. Awakenings. Progress. Be a part of the solutions, or part of the problems - it's up to you.

But know this - your insulation from the woes of your countrymen is worthless. There's a whole world out here - outside of your bubble.

Was there fraud? Sure. Smatered everywhere. And it's all falling down.

Meanwhile, the work-a-day world is in peril, and we all need to pull together to figure it out and get through this.

Punishing everyone for the sins of the few is not justice, and it is not the American way. I believe that. Blaming the least of us for the fall of the greediest of us isn't either. I really believe that.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/23/09 7:58am
Msg #281742

Re: Susan, do you really believe that?

There were a lot of cash-out refinances, of course. That's the pitch that was being sold--use your equity to pay off high interest credit card debt. As inflation took over, people found themselves having to borrow to keep up. I went through a divorce & had to tap into my "equity". This was all great for the credit card companies--fewer defaults & bankruptcy.
It was still all part of a sham, IMO.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/23/09 8:11pm
Msg #281888

What part of "laid off" don't you understand? n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 3/23/09 6:55am
Msg #281735

DateLine last evening

When they were taking C-wide to task on the stated income loans - one "taken" individual said she didn't "notice" the overly inflated income on her 1003. Well HELLO, didn't she notice the monthly payment? She knows how much she brought home every month ... if the payment was too much, what did it matter how they qualified her.

Peoples Choice - I did A LOT of those loans. VERY high closing costs. You should see the owner's CA beach house ... oh my. The business he's in right now? Some type foreclosure/modification company !!! Apparently he's a man who grasps the opportunities at hand !!!