Posted by Karen Thompson on 3/23/09 9:40pm
Msg #281905

Late with the E-Docs

What's the best way to handle signing services, title companies and the like who are late with sending e-docs as promised? Twice this year alone, after the ss, borrower and I all agreed on a date and time for the closing DAYS IN ADVANCE, the documents arrive more than an hour after the agreed upon closing time. One time the ss only offered an extra $10.00 for the inconvenience becasue they had to keep their promise of the "agreed upon fees" to the lending company. Things like that throw off plans for events I had planned. What do you suggest I do next time this happens because I'm sure there's going to be "a next time" as long as I'm doing this for a living?

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/23/09 10:03pm
Msg #281909

When I get the assignment, I make a courtesy call to the borrower and give them a quick explanation that the documents are coming to me electronically and I don't have them yet and that I will call them back and set the appointment time just as soon I get the docs. I have never had an issue with a hostile borrower since I began doing it this way a few years back. That way, late docs don't screw up my schedule if I have multiple appointments.

If there is a pre-set appointment time, it is usually a time that the SS, TC or Lender pulled out of a hat and the BO is open to the above. If you use good customer service skills, you won't run into resistance from either end of the signing.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/23/09 10:11pm
Msg #281910

Many have discussed this over the years; some roll with the punches if they are able, some put that signing at the end of the list if it interferes with some other plans/signing; some give a time limit for when the docs must arrive. Then we have others who confirm w/borrowers and let them know at the same time that when the docs arrive, and they do arrive late sometimes, they will call to schedule exact time. I am one of the latter. My standard spiel when I confirm is: I see we are meeting at your home, you need (etc) and I don't have the docs yet and sometimes they are late. Will this be a problem? If you don't hear from me, I will be on time (no news is good news). If I call you it will be because I don't have the docs but we will get you signed today/tonight.

That gives me a feel for what can be accomplished for that bor. and time frame. I find being upfront and an honest assessment gives the bor. peace of mind and I also find out what their limits are time wise. (kids ballgame -leaving 6:30, home at 9pm) Then I let my hiring entity know if docs are late that I have to have by x-hour. Works for me - and I will work till it is all done for the day.

Reply by Karen Thompson on 3/23/09 10:40pm
Msg #281914

Thanks Glenn and jba for your suggestions. My problem is not the borrower but the companies (somewhere between the lender and signing company) that get packages out for me after the agreed upon closing time. Oh yes, I always call the borrowers and explain to them if there's going to be a problem arriving on time due to non receipt of documents. Each time documents were late (about 2-4 times a year and I have been a signing agent for over 5 years), I have never had a problem with the borrower. But one time several years ago, the docs arrived over 2 hours late. Not only did I miss an engagement I was orginally scheduled to be at, once I arrived to the closing, the borrowers refused to sign certain documents. Talk about my evening being ruined!

Perhaps I must be firm with these signing companies who send me documents late especially if I have other plans that same day or evening. No documents by a certain a time, it's either an extra cost (and a hefty one at that) or they will have to find someone else to do the closing.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/24/09 3:17pm
Msg #281995

"Each time documents were late (about 2-4 times a year and I have been a signing agent for over 5 years)"

Jeez, lucky you. I'd be thrilled if I only got late docs 2-4 times a year.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 3/23/09 10:39pm
Msg #281912

Karen, if you run your life on a fixed schedule and are not extremely flexable (to a point) this is going to be a rough row for you to hoe.
The proceeding advice is very good, and these guys are good businessmen but, and I mean but, you are not going to be able to count on one time docs, neatly spaced appts. etc, especially at EOM. Some SA's, and good ones, will not even accept EOM appts because of the stress.
You are your own boss, do what you can handle, learn what companies and lenders are reliable about getting your assignments out and go from therte.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/23/09 10:53pm
Msg #281916

Another problem that is going on now, as best as I can tell, is that due to the meltdown even TC's and lenders were having to let staff go. Now that there has been a surge of sorts, they are having to get back into the swing with either less people than before, or new to their company.

No matter who you are, what position you have had before, how experienced you are, etc., when you go to work for a new company you still have to train in and to their methods. This can take time....sometimes of course to our detriment, meaning late docs. EOM is stressful everywhere anyway.

Like that prayer: Lord give me patience,...and I want it NOW.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 3/23/09 11:23pm
Msg #281918

You have to stay flexible, unfortunately

Because of the meltdown and fewer signings in the pipeline, edocs are actually coming mostly from a day to a several hours before the closing now. However, when there were tons of closings, late edocs was SOP for a lot of companies, or you got them maybe an hour before the closing time. I typically scheduled no more than 3 to a maximum of 4 closings in one day during EOM - early AM, mid-day, late afternoon, and evening - so as to leave time between closings to come home between closings and get docs for the next closing, or to allow some flexibility in the time. Even though the title company may have scheduled the closing several days earlier, it seems like they work on a "just in time" schedule - their time, not the notary's time, and only work on closings for a particular day on that particular day.
Title companies feel they are in charge, period, and they have been preparing and sending edocs at their convenience, not the notaries or the borrowers, for many years. That is not going to change. I personally would not take a closing that is scheduled for within 6 hours of any special event I have planned. Or on the day of the special event if it is one that I will be very unhappy at missing just because some title company didn't have it's edocs act together.

Reply by LKT/CA on 3/24/09 12:31am
Msg #281922

Re: You have to stay flexible, unfortunately

<<<<I personally would not take a closing that is scheduled for within 6 hours of any special event I have planned. Or on the day of the special event if it is one that I will be very unhappy at missing just because some title company didn't have it's edocs act together.>>>>

I agree. I also always answer my phone and if I have planned events, I tell the scheduler, "Thank you for calling but my calender is full", that way they know they're calling a notary who answers her phone, which I believe encourages them to call for future signings. And this did happen - a TC who is now one of my regulars called me and I answered but my "calender was full". I thought I'd never hear from them again since I had never worked with them. They called the next week for another signing, which I was able to take. That was the begining of a great relationship.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/24/09 2:31am
Msg #281925

Communication is the key. Time spent keeping everyone

in the loop is well spent.

Most people can deal with anything, as long as they know the deal.

If you're more interested in your personal timetable, you become less flexible in business.

On the other hand, when deadlines are critical, communication helps motivate compliance.

Communication takes up a great deal of my time. It helps to sweep the walk for a fruitful day.

If docs are received after a deadline, then that's not on me, or the borrower. It's basic customer service, and we simply cannot sign what is not delivered.

Communication and documentation. Stay in touch; back up the file. Be honest.

If you have a committment, it should be out front. A deal breaker. That time is for you - this time is for work. It is up to you to decide your priorities - up-front.

I would rather turn down work than promise what I can't deliver - but I will go to great lengths to accomodate the reality of my business in terms of timing.

It's a dance, isn't it?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/24/09 5:39am
Msg #281926

Late docs are becoming more and more common again. For a long while there for the last two years or so, docs seemed to be pretty much on time because lenders and TC's were not as busy. Now we're back to the old waiting game. I try to stay flexible, but sometimes I have personal plans which I am not willing to change. A couple of weeks ago my daughter had a chorus concert at her high school at 7 PM. Chorus is very important to her and it was important to her that I be there. I had an appt scheduled before the concert. Docs were late - I turned it back in to the SS. I called the borrower and let her know that another notary would be coming, as I had another *appointment* and could not accommodate the late docs. Borrower had made plans herself for after the appt and she was NOT happy about the late docs either.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/24/09 6:21am
Msg #281928

Setting expectations helps, as well as perspective

IMO, the most productive way to eliminate the negative stress is to lose this notion of people "waiting 'till the last minute", the image of people polishing their nails at their desks while you're sweating, hitting "refresh" every 3 seconds looking for docs.

It just isn't so. For the most part, everyone is in the SAME boat as you are, and it just isn't productive to get worked up about it. If anyone's to blame, it's a system - not a person - a system by which people's paychecks depend on monthly quotas (L.O.'s), and a system that enabled us to e-mail closing packages which presents a rather false illusion of docs being "instantly" available.

This is part of THIS job, and you either accept it, accommodate it into your own life as you (the business owner) see fit, or ... you can work yourself up at imaginary slough-offs, feel tense and angry, and complain about the pitfalls of what you chose to do.

I will say that extending some empathy with those you're working with (be they SS or TC or whomever) will get you a lot farther than holding them directly responsible for something they have no control over.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/24/09 7:04am
Msg #281930

...Twice this year alone,...

Have you only completed 4 orders this year? The reason I'm asking is that twice in 3 months time is nothing. I had it happen twice yesterday. I'm guessing my docs run 50/50. Being able to deal with it is what makes or breaks you in this business.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/24/09 8:55am
Msg #281938

Exactly. We may not like it, but this is pretty much SOP, especially at month end. This business is all about flexibility & rolling with the punches.

Reply by Karen Thompson on 3/24/09 9:49am
Msg #281948

Oh no.....I've done quite a few closings this year so far. The signing agent work for me is only part-time since I do work full-time. The thing for me is that it's unusual (at least for me) having documents arrive late so many times already this year.

Reply by LynnNC on 3/24/09 8:27am
Msg #281937

IMO, you can't blame the title companies...

...the docs are usually late because the LENDER didn't get them to the title company. Any stress that you feel because the docs are late, you can be sure those at the title company are feeling as well.

If you run on a strict schedule, you are in the wrong business. You musn't handle many closings if you have only had documents arrive twice more than an hour after the agreed-upon closing time.

Closing loans is my full-time business and I plan to work Monday through Friday nights on a regular basis and don't schedule events unless it is something very special. For the most part, it is not worth it to lose a $150 closing fee to go to an event. That being said, I don't have young children to deal with and my husband understands the nature of this business.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/24/09 10:38am
Msg #281950

Karen, you have to control what you can control

With my edoc assignments, more often than not, the docs are late, and I can't control that. I can, however, control what effect it has on my day. I schedule my own appointments. That is the understanding I have with my employers. If they resist, then I turn on the salesmanship and sell my view of the advantages of letting me handle my own closing times. It's better for everyone. Nothing looks more unprofessional to the borrower than being re-scheduled 2 or 3 times because of late docs and the notary also looks like an idiot even though it's not the notary that is holding things up. I like to look professional regardless of the challenges of the day. When you let the borrower know that you will schedule their appointment just as soon as title sends you the docs, it takes you out of the unprofessional loop.

Last Friday, I had 5 closings (no, it's not busy, they just all came on the same day), all edocs, all spread out over my area geographically 4 out of the 5, the edocs were late getting here, yet using my system, the signings were all on schedule with the BO because I schedule the appointments AFTER I get the docs, no exceptions. It's not that hard, really.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/24/09 3:38pm
Msg #282001

Re: Late with the E-Docs...and along with this theme

here I sit..4:34PM - signing at 5:30pm 50-60 minute drive away....no docs - just called and was told the processor just got the file and she's working on the package right now....don't think it's going for 5:30....and they scheduled this with me last Thursday....

Such is life and the nature of the beast...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/25/09 2:48am
Msg #282048

You're lucky they offered you $10 extra! I completely agree, though, with the comments you've received. Goes with the territory.

This, and other challenges (like scheduling o/n docs, then having the last minute "just a few pages" that you have to print) are things that need to be factored into your regular fees. Being available for those extra few pages can throw your whole schedule off and can even mean having to turn down additional appointments, unless you have a mobile printing set-up. (Ask me how I know...) If you price yourself accordingly, then it's just a part of the process that you have to accept.

These issues will become more and more frequent if things continue in the direction they seem to be going with lower interest rates and financing hopefully becoming more accessable. For anyone who is doing this for a living, this is one more reason to not accept low-ball fees!