I just wrote to one of the companies that I work with and told them that I am willing to lower my fees if it will mean getting more closing assignments. I know they're doing a lot of closings.
I got a response back telling me what fees would be more competitive for my area, and asked if I could work with that. I wrote back and said yes.
It's a dam* good company to work with. No hand-holding, no fax backs, etc. And they pay like clockwork. But I had a feeling that I'm not getting as many calls as I could be getting because my fees are in the $XXX range.
Anyway, it was a business decision. And I think it was a good one.
The person responded saying that she was glad that I checked in about that. I do good work, but I charge a bit more than what they're willing to pay.
P.S. Has anyone else considered coming down on their fees if it means getting more work? Especially if it's a very good company?
Reply by Cynthia/CA on 3/5/09 2:41pm Msg #279657
There's one company that I work for that does not pay my minimum fee. However, this company paid every time on time when a lot of other companies were going belly up and not paying at the start of the mortgage crisis. So, my answer is yes - I am willing to make concessions for the right company.
Reply by Lee/AR on 3/5/09 2:48pm Msg #279661
Not saying you shouldn't as it's your business. Just saying be careful; be very careful. You're getting more business now; until the 'other' notary reduces their fee...then what? Is this a business--or a reverse auction?
Reply by MW/VA on 3/5/09 2:47pm Msg #279659
This is Business 101. We need to price to be competitive in the marketplace. The fees that were common during the "bubble" are not a reality now. Even tc's are paying a little less. The only problem I have with this is that the closing costs to the borrowers aren't any lower. The fees at the top (broker, etc.) are still where the money is going.
Reply by Lee/AR on 3/5/09 2:51pm Msg #279663
Actually, 'bubble' fees were already lower than I'd been making pre-bubble. As you pointed out, the only downward trend we've seen is US.
Reply by Les_CO on 3/5/09 3:08pm Msg #279667
Well Leon…….By your absurd post you have now effectively ‘lowered’ your fees to ALL companies, regardless of the ‘volume’ you get. If I had a SS and I have been paying you say…….$125 for a std email refi, and I now learn you charge my COMPETITOR $75 for the same service….You are GONE! You ain’t the only guy in the Springs. This type of loyalty I don’t need. Just a suggestion….keep this ‘stuff’ to yourself…….. And if you want to give 'volume' discounts...give them to everyone...1 a month...$125...2 a month $120...3 a month $110....4 a month $100....You get the idea?
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/5/09 4:14pm Msg #279682
Why the announcement??!!
"keep this ‘stuff’ to yourself…….."
That was kinda my reaction when I read this, too. In the past, I might have considered a slight reduction for a long-term client that has consistently given me *lots* of business without headaches and drama, but I sure as heck wouldn't announce it publicly! (This reminds me of XYZ coming out with "recommended minimum" fees. That was the beginning of a rash of fee reductions.) Lately, it seems I've been turning down more work because of unavailability than because of low fees.
Being in business means continually evaluating your competitiveness and business policies, including fees. But I can't think of any successful business that announces their key strategies publicly for their competition to react to. It just isn't smart, imo.
Come on, folks... This is not a private forum just for those of us who do this work. Anyone can read this board, including the people that hire us. Some of them are now wondering if maybe they've been paying too much and should be thinking of lowering their fees further. [Not the good ones, though, right?! ]
How about we get our minds working towards a different direction? I'm visualizing our fledgling industry achieving something of an equilibrium between the number of NSAs/remote closers (or whatever we choose to call ourselves) and the volume of work available. And that the work is paid (to the person who actually does it) at fees high enough to support full time professionals who promote a positive image for our funtion by their conduct and expertise, and who can afford to properly equip themselves, stay current with technology, AND still make a reasonable profit. (This is not intended to be a commentary about signing services. If they pay the notary - who is doing the printing, the driving and the face time - the majority of the fee, and do enough volume efficiently enough, this could be true for them, as well.)
Somehow lowering my fees to beat my competition doesn't feel like it is taking me in that direction. But then again, maybe I'm just dreaming...
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 5:41pm Msg #279694
Re: Why the announcement??!!
It wasn't intended to by an announcement, but rather a topic for conversation.
I'm not lowering my fees all across the board. It's just this one company. My fees were just too high for them.
And it's not to beat the competition. Because the fee that I negotiated is still higher than what a lot of people in my area would charge. So the company still has the option to call someone who charges less.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/5/09 6:27pm Msg #279706
Re: Why the announcement??!!
You may not have intended it as an announcement, but that's the way it came across (at least to me and clearly a few others who have bothered to post). I'm just suggesting that some things you'd be better off keeping to yourself -- and possibly so would the rest of us!
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 6:41pm Msg #279711
Re: Why the announcement??!!
>> I'm just suggesting that some things you'd be better off keeping to yourself << -----------------------------------------
I don't see it that way. And I don't see why people should be bothered.
If we can't talk openly about these issues that affect our business, how else are we going to discuss them? I thought that's what this forum was all about.
I have received several emails and private messages from people who said they have done the same, or they are considering it. But I would rather not respond to a lot of emails and private messages. Let's talk about it in the open so that everyone can share their views, and exchange ideas.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 7:03pm Msg #279715
Let's talk about it in the open
NOT. I know of no public forum where professionals write about similar topics. These topics are not meant to be discussed publicly, and I will have no part of it, nor will most true professionals.
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 7:10pm Msg #279717
Re: Let's talk about it in the open
>> I know of no public forum where professionals write about similar topics. << -------------------------------------------
'Source of Title'
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 7:19pm Msg #279718
Bull.
Unless I missed one of your posts.
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 7:23pm Msg #279722
Re:
I'm on SOT right now and reading tons of posts on this subject. I'm reading a thread right now that is almost identical to what I'm talking about.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 7:33pm Msg #279728
Morons of a feather flock together
Rave on cat sh*t.
Someone will cover you up.
I know I've never seen anyone that dumb on SOT.
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 7:51pm Msg #279731
Re:
I really don't care what you think, or what anyone else thinks. A lot of signing agents who have been in this business a long time agree with my decision. Just a couple of responses that I have received:
"I have found I need to do what is best for me and my business and not really worry too much about what everyone else on this site does or says."
"I have lowered my fees for really excellent companies from $XXX to $XX and it did pay off. Good luck."
(I changed the dollar amounts to Xs)
If there is a closing going on in Colorado Springs, and I'm not getting it because the company isn't able to pay $XXX, then it makes perfect sense to do what I have to do to work and to survive. I just want to survive.
Good luck.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 8:09pm Msg #279737
They sure didn't do the stoopid thing
and post about it online, though, did they?
Reply by Pat/IL on 3/5/09 8:23pm Msg #279742
I love it when people misspell 'stupid'.
Not trying to be a smart alec, just a friendly observation. It makes me smile.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 8:26pm Msg #279746
Did it purposefully Pat. n/m
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 8:27pm Msg #279747
I believe it was done for Emphasis, Pat. n/m
Reply by Pat/IL on 3/5/09 8:30pm Msg #279748
Re: I believe it was done for Emphasis, Pat.
Okay, I still got a chuckle. Thanks for that.
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 9:27pm Msg #279766
Me too, Pat.
Misty refers to bastids quite regularly too.
Reply by Pat/IL on 3/5/09 10:34pm Msg #279775
That's funny, too.
Maybe Misty can add a couple more 'o's to stoopid for us guys who might not get it right away. Like this: Stooooopid.
Anyway, I can appreciate the lingo. Around here, some of us say things like "da boatayiz' when speaking to two people at the same time. The well-heeled among us, however will say 'the both of you'. A City of Chicago department boss, in turning down a job applicant, has been noted for telling an underling: "I don't want nobody what nobody sent". Which means, again for the well-heeled, "Please, if he's not connected, I don't want to see his resume".
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 8:25pm Msg #279744
You know, Leon, I just don't get you.
You seem to contradict yourself with every post you make. You state "I really don't care what you think, or what anyone else thinks" only to argue with those that disagree with you and then post PMs from people agreeing with you. It's obvious to me and many others that you DO care, perhaps to a fault. I think you care WAY too much what others think because your posts on this forum are always about beating your own chest or looking for affirmation from the members here. Seriously, Leon, work on yourself and your self-worth with a professional not on a public forum. We have enough reality shows on TV and don't need nor want the Leon show on NotRot. We really don't need another Danny Bonaduce train wreck now do we?
The bottom line is this, Leon. If you do not value your time or the services that you provide no one else will. Period, end of story. Consider yourself schooled and buried.
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/5/09 7:19pm Msg #279719
Re: Let's talk about it in the open
I don't read SOT that often but when I do it is usually the other way around. Concerns about the lower fees being offered. Not offering to accept lower fees. But, what do I know?
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 7:20pm Msg #279721
Exactly, Brenda
<<<But, what do I know?>>>
You're a pretty smart cookie, Brenda, you don't miss much.
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/5/09 7:26pm Msg #279725
Misty...maybe they've lost their marbles over there but
I'd be surprised. They are a polite and professional bunch. I don't see them posting about how they are soliciting clients by offering lower fees; maybe Leon will give us an example. Not that it matters. No matter if someone at SOT has had brain freeze (posting about their offer) it was a terrible idea to do it here IMHO.
Les was spot on being indignant about it...I would have been if I were casually referring/networking with someone. But that's just me.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/5/09 8:00pm Msg #279734
Re: Why the announcement??!!
I agree with Misty. A business plan and strategy should be proprietary company information, and to think otherwise is naive, imo. Some things we just need to figure out on our own. In fact, some companies go to great lengths to protect the secrecy of their business plans. Letting it get out can put their success at implementation at great risk. Any serious business person knows that.
As I said before, this is a very public forum open to anyone. Discussing technical issues and the "how-to's" of our business is very different from discussing our individual fees and strategies. I don't see anything wrong with private replies, however, or keeping these discussions off-line. In fact, that may be a good use of that feature, (but keep in mind that by disclosing something privately to someone just because they asked, you might be giving an advantage to someone who is a competitor of another person on this board who may have helped you with something else in the past). I'm sure there are tons of people, many just lurking here, who would absolutely love for the most successful among us to "share their views" and pricing schemes, but I seriously doubt they would be as successful as they are if they were foolish enough to do so.
"I don't see it that way. And I don't see why people should be bothered"
Some of us have just been around long enough to understand that there are often unintended consequences of things that seem harmless on the surface. That's at the heart of what we're trying to tell you. Some things are just better left unsaid.
Reply by Healey dba JP-Online - MyraAnne on 3/6/09 12:23pm Msg #279826
I could not agree more. I am not lowering my fees for anybody. I dont care how many notaries are under cuttiing me and they are. I have been at this 29yrs. I am not going anywhere. I have my loyal customers and if they ask me to cut my rates I would tell them cut me out of your database. My not so humble opinion.
Reply by Michelle/AL on 3/5/09 3:11pm Msg #279669
I haven't volunteered to lower my fees across the board, but
I do accept closings from one company that pays less than $100 for most of their closings for the same reasons you gave.
However, your post has given me pause, Leon. I was considering raising my fee for eSignings by $15-20 per closing to cover my additional cost VerizonWireless costs. I think I will still approach the Title companies with my price increase, BUT I'll go about it differently. Instead of "announcing" my increase, I think I'll have a discussion with the schedulers and tell them what I'm proposing and see if my increase will mean fewer closings.
I appreciate your post.
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 3:29pm Msg #279673
Re: I haven't volunteered to lower my fees across the board, but
I'm not lowering my fees for all companies. It's just this one company. And just like you, I have actually raised my fees for eSignings.
Reply by sue_pa on 3/5/09 3:34pm Msg #279675
Probably a decade ago, our good friend Suzanne N. said that ... if you are hired because you're the cheapest, you'll be replaced for the same reason.
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 3:58pm Msg #279680
How true it is, Sue! Leon, can you say MoMo? n/m
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 3:53pm Msg #279679
Good God, Leon! Further proof of what I've been saying...
for years.
You are so friggin insecure that you feel the NEED to post crap like this to pat your own back only to reveal your own true ineptness. Why not just post "Has anyone else considered coming down on their fees if it means getting more work? Especially if it's a very good company?" Instead, you announce to every company that reads this board and your competition that you have lowered your fees and your standards.
Reply by MW/VA on 3/5/09 7:56pm Msg #279733
Re: Good God, Leon! Further proof of what I've been saying...
If Leon is doing this for attention he gets it when these threads turn into arguments. If he is ignored, maybe he'll stop this need to "blog" and bring up topics that appeal to idiots.
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 8:51pm Msg #279754
No, Marilynn, he won't stop.
He used to post his blog entries everyday until Harry finally told him to stop after many complaints from board members. Leon just doesn't GET it and he never will until he seeks help from a professional specializing in self doubt issues. Not even will a Porsche help him at this point, he's too fer gone.
Since we're sharing private massages, I'd like to share this one from a member that gets it.
>>>Leon reminds me of that old saying, "better to keep quiet and let people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." <<<
Leon doesn't learn from his mistakes. He back peddles, makes excuses, disappears for a few days and repeats the same offense. He's habitual. Perhaps it's OCD?
Reply by CaliNotary on 3/5/09 8:55pm Msg #279756
But he's great for our self esteem
Every time I read one of his posts, I feel good that I don't have to go through life being completely clueless and desperate for attention.
Reply by MichiganAl on 3/5/09 6:09pm Msg #279701
Attention hiring companies!! Leon will lower his fee!!
All you've got to do is call him and promise him volume. Heck, HE'LL CALL YOU!
You really felt the need to announce this publicly? Unbelievable. Every time I think I've seen your most absurd post ever, you top it. What you'll post just to say "hey everybody, look at me" is astonishing.
Reply by Tess on 3/5/09 8:01pm Msg #279735
Re: I know of no other profession that has cheapened itself
to a point that it allows it’s customers to dictate what they will pay them, or even allow such a situation to begin with for the bargaining of their fees!
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 8:09pm Msg #279736
Re: I know of no other profession that has cheapened itself
"We went to work on July 29 and they informed us that it was closing that day. Pack your bags and go. . . . I was shocked," said the 34-year-old mother of two. "I've been looking pretty hard, but it's a really bad market right now. Title insurance is the only thing I've done. That makes it hard to find a job." ------------------------------------------------------ This is the reality. There are a lot of people out of work. I'm thankful to have a source of income. My thoughts are, 'stick to your guns' ... just don't shoot yourself in the foot.
Good luck.
Reply by Tess on 3/5/09 8:14pm Msg #279738
Re: If you lose respect for yourself, so will everyone else. n/m
Reply by Leon_CO on 3/5/09 8:18pm Msg #279739
Re: If you lose respect for yourself, so will everyone else.
Personally, I would rather have a roof over my head. That's all the self respect I need. Beats living under a bridge.
Good luck.
Reply by Tess on 3/5/09 8:25pm Msg #279743
Re: Then, when this work is done by hourly employees at $10
per hour, you have yourself to blame for a professions downfall. Because if this does not stop, that is where this is heading!
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 8:32pm Msg #279749
Re: Then, when this work is done by hourly employees at $10
Exactly, Tess. Spot on.
Reply by sue_pa on 3/5/09 9:02pm Msg #279760
$10 is too much
You know the big white/glass realtor's office/title company about a mile east of me? They pay $8 to part timers with no benefits !!!
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 9:16pm Msg #279764
Tess, I'm with you, but he just doesn't get it...So sad. :( n/m
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 8:26pm Msg #279745
Good luck.
Luck has nothing to do with it. If that is what you think, it's no wonder why you post the nonsense you do.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/5/09 8:40pm Msg #279751
Re: I know of no other profession that has cheapened itself
"just don't shoot yourself in the foot."
You seem to be doing just that.
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 9:19pm Msg #279765
MoMo's...what can you do? They just don't GET IT. n/m
Reply by Becca_FL on 3/5/09 8:57pm Msg #279758
Amen, Tess! I'm so glad to see some NSAs still have a set. n/m
Reply by Tess on 3/5/09 9:52pm Msg #279770
Re: Thanks! I may not be rolling in dough at this moment,
but I can say that the companies I do work with ,are respectable ones, and I would never trade my self respect for change! America was made by those who work hard, not by those who sold their souls for money!!!
Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/5/09 9:56pm Msg #279772
Re: Thanks! I may not be rolling in dough at this moment,
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/5/09 11:42pm Msg #279777
LOL!!! What a great touch... (music to print docs by!) n/m
Reply by Cari on 3/31/10 8:39am Msg #329763
Leon, I think you made a huge mistake...what happens when
the other nsa's lower their fees? Will you then lower yours? When will it stop?
It doesn't matter which "dam* good company" it is....the bottom line is you have given in and hav subjected yourself to getting paid LESS than you are worth?!
At what cost and for how long?? If this lowering trend continues, we are going to have to start paying these companies just to keep us on their 'list'?! Ridiculous....
If you have a business plan, and if you don't I recommend you do, compare your future earnings (at your new lower price) for the next three years with your future expenditures. Its going to seriously hurt 'cause you'll come out in the "black" for the next three years!
You have paid major dollars in membership fees, marketing, training, stamp, gov't fees, ink, toner, paper, gas, car maintenance, etc., to become a professionally trained NSA right? And as a result, you provide a professional service...you obviously do "good work" because you are a true professional at your job. Take into account all of this...ask yourself, why in the hell am I lowering my self-worth? Its out of fear. You have lowered your standards just to gain a few more closings from a company that obviously doesn't give a rats a$$ about you or your 'good work', because if they did, they'd be calling you and paying you what your worth!
Do not cower to these low ball fees! A lot of us are nervous now, and are receiving fewer and fewer calls but my resolution so to speak to this is MARKETING! There no such thing as too much marketing! There is business out there for all of us - at our prices - its just going to take more 'elbow grease' to get it - but it is out there!
What pisses me off about this company and other similar,is that although they admit that you do 'good work', they blatantly put their clients best interest second to their bottom line!
Seems like the new business model for these types of companies went from, "Let's hire the best and pay for it so we can continue to provide our customers with excellent service to "screw our clients, we have to maintain our bottom line first and foremost, so hire the cheapest and pray for the best!"
I foresee lots of litigation in this company's future....
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