Posted by MonicaFL on 3/21/09 8:36pm
Msg #281638

Nations Direct

A friend of mine performed a closing the other night for this company. They e-mailed her the docs and she thought she had everything. She sends the package back. They call after receiving the package and ask her where are the title docs? She stated she printed out everything they sent her and she even asked if that was everything and they said yes.

What i am getting at here is this - They finally sent her the title docs and told her that she needed to put the date on it that was on the original package. She told them that was illegal and they very adamantly told her - Oh no, its legal because you didn't take the docs with you to begin with. I told her she should report them to the SOS of Kansas. Don't know if she did or not, but here is another company who thinks they know all of the rules (or, should I say, all of THEIR rules, and screw you!) Just had to pass this along. Especially for newbies, if anyone asks you to BACKDATE the answer should not only be No, but inform them that you are reporting them because they have asked you to perform an illegal act. DON"T BACKDATE.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/21/09 8:42pm
Msg #281640

Hopefully she asked them to send an email with those instructions.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/21/09 9:50pm
Msg #281647

You're not being clear on this - did they ask her to notarize with a prior date, or to simply date the docs with a prior date? The first is illegal; the second isn't.

Reply by ChristineHI on 3/21/09 10:04pm
Msg #281649

I agree with Mike. Just backdating non notarized documents is not illegal. I would not notarize a document with a previous date but for just some title documents it is not a problem, as long as they do not require notarization.
I think your friend is actually making a much bigger deal over something than is necessary. Notarizing a document is much different than just dating a document. You should get clarification on that before you post information regarding a company and what notaries should and should not do.
That information, as Mike pointed out, makes a big difference.

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 3/21/09 10:15pm
Msg #281651

Actually, backdating of some non-notarized loan docs are done routinely. Most often, these are the preliminary disclosures that need to be dated back to when credit wqas pulled. We see them quite often in the packages because the LOs are too lazy to send them out when they are supposed to be sent.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/21/09 10:21pm
Msg #281652

Generally title docs are full of affidavits

And signatures would be notarized.

I just wonder why anyone would not check the package prior to leaving for an appt.,
unless they were under duress.
If I get a package without title docs, I know it when I do a look-see of the package.
There have been a few tcs who have few to no junk docs, and I have been known to call and ask about it. I don't ask "is this everything?" without looking at what I have received first.
CYA.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/21/09 10:23pm
Msg #281653

oops, I din't mean duress...

I meant under stress (from late docs).
Even when docs are late, I look at them on screen while printing.

Reply by MonicaFL on 3/21/09 10:43pm
Msg #281655

Re: Generally title docs are full of affidavits

Well, ten of the twenty pages that needed to be signed also needed to be notarized and they asked her to date the notarized papers the same date as were on the original package (in plain language - backdate!). And yes she was under duress. The docs were only three hours late and she did try to call them after finally receiving them (the original package) to find out where the rest of the package was and no one, at any phone number, would answer the phone. She did get an e-mail from them wanting her to reply that she received "the package" and when she did that she also asked about the title docs and never got a response to that e-mail either. Now the kicker is - they set the appointment three days before the actual signing date and still, the docs were three hours late!

Reply by Maureen_nh on 3/21/09 11:04pm
Msg #281657

Re: Generally title docs are full of affidavits

Somebody is trying to save their butt at her expense.
This company is cheap but have been in business for a long time and I don't think would really come out in the open and ask for an illegal act. At least I would hope not.

Reply by ChristineHI on 3/21/09 11:04pm
Msg #281658

Re: Generally title docs are full of affidavits

I am glad you clarified that because that is much different and, yes, I would not do that. Many companies wait until the 12th hour to do docs as well. A very, very annoying thing to deal with. They also will sometimes try and blame you, so it is good that she has an email showing her inquiry regarding the missing docs. It is tough when you cannot reach them when there is a problem..do you go to the signing knowing something is missing or not go until you find out where they are.? As long as I document my inquiries I would probably go to the signing too and if they want me to go back they can pay me again, but I would not date notarized docs for that date. It is tough when you are forced into a situation like that for sure.
One thing to remember though, it is the lender that draws the docs and they are late a lot lately in getting docs, even if the appointment is a week away! These signing agencies are hesitant sometimes to follow up on your behalf on the docs so you are forced to adjust to any changes. A pain in the you know what. :-) Thanks for sharing.

Reply by Notary/Guy on 3/22/09 12:07am
Msg #281661

3/19/2009 just offered me $30 for a signing. i laughed. TX
3/16/2009 Steady work but the pay is extremely low compared to other companies. IL
3/14/2009 cheap, cheap, cheap and will strangle you with excessive phone calls CA
3/13/2009 They pay good NY
3/12/2009 CHEAP and Horrible Attitudes from Reps GA
2/20/2009 Great to with with but low pay...took 45 days to receive payment TN
2/18/2009 low pay but keeps you busy, too many phone calls but the staff is friendly PA
2/1/2009 Pays very slow, 60 days plus, and they shop for the cheapest. No loyalty. HI
1/31/2009 too bothersome , too many phone calls, low ballers. TN
1/28/2009 Base rate $60 is low & policy is they don't pay you til end of following month! TX
1/27/2009 Just called me for a $40 signing, $20 edoc. I seriously laughed out loud. CA
12/9/2008 60+ days for payment, steady work. PA
12/4/2008 Great service to Borrower and Lender...all over the notary, but thats good biz. CA
12/2/2008 Called tonight at 8 PM, for a email signing at 11 AM, 36 miles away for $60. OH
11/20/2008 One of the worst out there. Scum. Lowest fees in the market MS
11/17/2008 Good communication. Professional. Takes 60+ days to pay!! LA
11/14/2008 Low pay but they pay on time and always available. Great Service. CA
10/17/2008 LOW FEES told them I wanted more, they removed me off their list. MD
10/5/2008 low pay but consistent, steady work load and pays on time CA
9/24/2008 At this point we call them slow pay (7 weeks over due at this point) FL
9/12/2008 Actually tried to get me to backdate a document and I am still owed money. CA
9/12/2008 pay is consistent, but too low on their fees & too much faxing. AK
9/3/2008 cheap, cheap, cheap and will strangle you with excessive phone calls FL
8/21/2008 60$ eDocs? Told em Id rather go2 the Mall, No wonder they lost their Anch person AK
8/8/2008 Low fees, require a lot of work, not worth it PA
7/11/2008 LOW PAY LOW BALL COMPANY.Long time to pay. CA
7/10/2008 Low fees, got me started & do pay. Learn to ask questions before accepting. LA
5/23/2008 Very low pay. MO
4/29/2008 $75 for huge edocs( my fault) ,many faxbacks, but paid within 30days PA
4/9/2008 low fees, fax backs required, too much hassle for too little pay MA
3/10/2008 LOW PAY,SLOW PAY,LOT OF WORK,TO LITTLE MONEY CT
2/25/2008 alot of hand holding and very cheap, very pushy NM
2/21/2008 Low payoffered but will pay more. Always pay without fail NH
2/18/2008 Very demanding, very cheap and yet expect a lot from you. GA
2/12/2008 Lowest pay offered yet. $40 + $20Edocs. Told them No! TX
1/24/2008 don't accept their flat rate...will not keep you busy AL
1/7/2008 They treat their notaries like idiots!! They need to close their own loans!!! OH
12/6/2007 Ok if your new and need experience but not for a non rookie FL
11/8/2007 Cheap, cheap. cheap! Fast pay and friendly. PA
11/7/2007 What a joke. Called 2 wks ago 4 70mi r/t for $30, dont care if it was only 3pgs WV
10/4/2007 Low (very slow) pay. A LOT of hand holding. Won't do it again. ME
10/3/2007 For 7 years I have found Nations to be very reliable. They pay weekly. AZ
10/3/2007 Low paying, lie about fee when promised a certain amount to pay MD
9/27/2007 Extremely low fee for a lot of work CA
9/26/2007 Wont pay you enough to put gas in your car, much less your time. TX
9/25/2007 Absurd $40 payments - told them to STOP calling me for these fees. NM
9/25/2007 lowest fees in the country - want a lot for very little fee AZ
8/30/2007 Terrible!!! LOW fee and No pay, I would NEVER work for them again! IN
8/15/2007 Low paying - Not worth it CA
8/8/2007 Lowered their rate and they expect you to do the same! GA
8/7/2007 Low Fees and Slow Pay PA
8/3/2007 too much work for too little $$, fax backs, hand-holding, although they do pay CT
7/29/2007 worked for them for 2 months and still not paid.... MT
7/27/2007 Low paying WI
7/18/2007 Low Fees - not worth it OR
7/10/2007 low fee's, slow payments, and yes they hound you TN
7/10/2007 Always in a pinch - Jump thru hoops for the lowest fee out there FL
7/9/2007 You bet, lowest base fee and too much hand holding FL
6/26/2007 They're always asking you to "help them out" and then constantly hound you. CA
6/17/2007 An insult to notaries across the country with a base fee of $40! Disgraceful. FL

Reply by MW/VA on 3/22/09 8:29am
Msg #281671

I don't understand why anyone takes work from NationsDirect in the first place, but that's another matter. Title docs usually require notarization. As we know, it's one thing for them to ask or demand that we do it, but we commit the illegal act if we do it, not them.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/22/09 9:57am
Msg #281682

While we all agree (or should agree) that we don't backdate, no matter the reason, reporting someone is probably a waste of your time and effort. I know in CA they say it's a felony to even request it but I don't know about anywhere else. Throughout the years there have been several instances reported on these boards where individuals/entities have been reported and even finding the right person/office to even listen has been an uphill battle. In the grand scheme of things, until that notarization causes a problem at some point down the road, no one is probably going to care.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/22/09 11:46am
Msg #281686

REALLY silly to ask some to backdate title dox. They

are , by definition , for the title co , not for the lender.
Cover such issues as identitly, survey accuracy, no acts to
put so suffer new liens to the title after date of title exam, corrections,
payoff discrepanies, etc, etc.
No reason why they can not be dated and notarized subsequent to the
date that the loan dox are signed and notarized.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/22/09 12:06pm
Msg #281689

You are right, Bob!

Although the title affidavits do serve a specific and important purpose, there is no reason that they would need to be signed and dated on the same day as the loan documents are signed. They serve mostly to accommodate the waiving of certain exceptions to coverage. If, on funding day, the title agent is able to ensure the coverage required by the lender, the dates should not be an issue.

If, as I suspect, this is a matter of an employee trying to avoid responsibility for the error, which might result in paying for a second trip, well, that's the nature of some employees. I think if the notary were to speak to a manager at the title office who is not attempting a CYA, the decision would be an easy one: Send the notary back, prior to the funding date, to get the documents signed. No backdating, and pay the notary for the additional time and effort. And take the employee to task for putting the company at risk to cover up for sloppy work.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/22/09 5:39pm
Msg #281700

"reporting someone is probably a waste of your time and effort. I know in CA they say it's a felony to even request it but I don't know about anywhere else"

Actually it's a misdemeanor, but other than that you're exactly right.

I posted the story a few months ago of how I tried to report someone to the SOS for altering a DOT that I had notarized and used the same notarization. They didn't care in the slightest, all they did was pass the buck to the county recorder, who passed the buck to the Dept of Real Estate, who passed the buck to the police, who I didn't even bother to call. If the SOS didn't care about that, they sure aren't going to give a flying fig about someone asking us to backdate.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/22/09 5:54pm
Msg #281701

All things considered, I'm sure this would be considered minor compared to the other criminal activity that has taken place in the mortgage industry.

Reply by MW/VA on 3/22/09 5:55pm
Msg #281702

I almost meant to say real estate industry.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/23/09 1:41am
Msg #281733

"...until that notarization causes a problem at some point down the road, no one is probably going to care"

I think that pretty well sums it up, sadly, but isn't the possibility of "a probelm at some point" the whole reason people bother to have a document notarized to begin with? That's at least something for us to hang our hat on.

Reply by LynnNC on 3/22/09 9:36pm
Msg #281717

I haven't read through all the posts on the thread to see what others have written, but I think it is up to the NSA to be sure that they have both the lender and title docs. Often there are two emails or two attachements, but if there is only one, I check to make sure both lender and title docs are there.

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 3/23/09 2:39pm
Msg #281814

Please convince me why I should be responsible for doing that. THe one time I did ask specifically about title docs (long story), I was told the package was inclusive.