Posted by mmjosey on 3/23/09 11:09am
Msg #281774

Payment at the Table!!!!

How many of you believe it's time we start getting paid at the time of closing when we perform the service just as Inspectors, appraisers and termite inspectors do?

This will eliminate everyone getting paid for closing except tha signing agent.

Reply by seddy on 3/23/09 12:13pm
Msg #281789

Count me in! n/m

Reply by Cari on 3/23/09 12:51pm
Msg #281794

I love daydreaming about good things too.... n/m

Reply by Todd/OH on 3/23/09 4:01pm
Msg #281835

I agree Cari - dream on n/m

Reply by Barbara___IL on 3/23/09 1:19pm
Msg #281797

That would not only make my day, it would change my life!

Reply by ChristineHI on 3/23/09 1:32pm
Msg #281800

Well, I actually don't mind invoicing. I don't want to have to deal with payment directly from the borrowers. I like the fact that it is separate and that I don't need to discuss money with the borrowers. I prefer to deal with the title company, lenders and signing companies.
Also, just so you know, at least in Hawaii, where I have processed mortgage loans for 16 years, inspectors, appraisers and termite inspectors are not paid at the time they perform the service. They also invoice their clients and must wait for payment just like us. It might be different elsewhere, but in Hawaii, they are just like us in regard to payment.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/23/09 1:47pm
Msg #281804

Re: Payment at the Table!!!!...Christine

My experience is CT and FL - in both appraisers are paid at time services are rendered - 99% of the time they're shown on the HUD as POC because they've been paid prior to closing and almost never out of closing proceeds...some are even paid at the door by the borrowers (I know mine was!!)

Reply by PAW on 3/23/09 1:32pm
Msg #281801

Who's going to pay you?

Borrowers are not responsible for payment to the signing agent. So how would we 'get paid at the table?'

I would be nice if the docs had a pay voucher (check) included in the docs, but let's get real. Signing Agents would be hard pressed to get paid at the time service is rendered.

Reply by Yowheelz on 3/23/09 1:43pm
Msg #281803

actually had this happen once in 14 years

Opened the o/n package and there was a check made out to me. Wasn't a purchase either.
I was totally shocked!

Reply by davidK/CA on 3/23/09 1:56pm
Msg #281805

I'd settle for being named on the HUD-1.

Then they can list the SS on another line for their share. That way we both get paid at the same time. I don't care if the borrower learns how much the SS is taking as a fee or how much the NSA is actually receiving.

In CA the appraiser is almost always paid directly by the borrower at the time the appraiser shows up at the door and then the charge for the appraisal is shown on the settlement statement as POC.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/09 2:37pm
Msg #281813

Re: I'd settle for being named on the HUD-1.

I doubt the title company knows what the SS is paying the Signing Agent. The SS charges the title company a fee and that is the fee that is on the HUD.


I wanted to pay the appraiser directly for the appraisal I had, but he told me that he has to be paid by the TC. I was able to pay the surveyor directly, but not the appraiser.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 2:47pm
Msg #281815

Re: I'd settle for being named on the HUD-1.

Yes, I think this whats necessary for our services to be recognized as valuable. This is how I see it, We as notaries are advancing credit to the signing agentcies and other companies, by expending money and time on printing docs, gas and travel to go and close a loan. Too often what we are really doing is picking bad debts when those companies don't reimburse us for the fees and expenses to close the loan. The loan closes and funds and all parties get paid except us this is not right.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 2:07pm
Msg #281808

Re: Who's going to pay you?

In the majority of the closings I complete the borrowers pay for the notary service, the charge is included on the Hud. The title company then cuts a check to the signing agency who then deposit the check into their accounts and waits to pays the notary. Here in Texas the inspectors and appraisers get paid at the time service is rendered unless the lender has agreed to pay them and be reimbursed when the loan closes. This way they get paid regardless of whether the loan closes. Since they have already provided the service.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/23/09 2:18pm
Msg #281812

In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors

Without their service...no loan. We are a convenience, not a necessity.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 2:50pm
Msg #281816

Re: In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors

even more reason why we should be paid upfront for our services. By the way without a closing agent to notarize their is no loan.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/23/09 3:05pm
Msg #281817

Without a closing agent to notarize there is no loan?

I don't know about Texas but notaries I run across in the field are not closing agents.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/23/09 3:10pm
Msg #281818

TY Charles

I only have two hats, one is a little notary cap and the other is a signing agent beret. If I had one of those closing agents 10 gallon stetsons I'd be making a whole lot more than what I am now.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/23/09 4:15pm
Msg #281842

No Charles...no way.

Mobile notaries aren't closing agents in Texas just because they are corraling a stack of loan documents. Closing agents are inside of title companies, or occasionally in a lawyer's office...no mobile notaries, no way.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/23/09 7:41pm
Msg #281880

Re: No Charles...no way. TY Brenda, while the Terminator

AKA the Governator has given me license to steal (real estate lic) I can't proffer an opinion on Texas without some posterior exposure. I didn't think that was the case and this is a perfect example of people tossing about terms that don't fit their meanings. "...corraling a stack of loan documents." Head 'em up, move 'em out, Giddyap! Yee Haw little loan dogies (or however you ladies and gents in the great State of Texas call 'em! or spell 'em) Good greif it must be really tough to talk like that all the time.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/23/09 7:52pm
Msg #281883

Ok Chas - you get Funniest msg of the Day Award! n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/09 3:48pm
Msg #281827

Re: In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors

"By the way without a closing agent to notarize their is no loan."

We are not "closing agents". Without signing agents the loans would still go through. Many title companies have notaries on staff.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 5:28pm
Msg #281853

Re: In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors



"closing agent or Signing Agent" If their is no one to notarize and get the borrower to sign the docs. their is no loan!!!!!!!!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/23/09 5:36pm
Msg #281856

Re: In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors

"If their is no one to notarize and get the borrower to sign the docs. their is no loan"

True - however there is usually someone at the title company's office that can notarize.
Mobile notaries, signing agents (Not closing agents)" are for the borrowers convenience
And the correct word is "there" not "their"

A closing agent has more responsibilities than a signing agent.

Those that have been on these message boards for the past 10 years will probably remember the time when a signing agent signed as "closing agent" and the loan could not be sold on the secondary market.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 6:12pm
Msg #281864

Re: In no way can we compare ourselves to appraisers/inspectors

True- however there is usually someone at the title company"s office that can notarize.

Exactly what I'm saying. If there is no one to notarize and sign, this means at the title company too, than the loan can't close.
The majority of the work I do is for title companies out of the state and or city, without mobile notaries the borrowers would have to travel to to close their loans.


Regardless the point is that we should get paid when service is provided.

Reply by PAW on 3/23/09 7:52pm
Msg #281884

Do a search for the term "Courtesy Closing"

Then you will see that mobile notary signing agents are simply a convenience for the borrower, not a necessity for closing the loan.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/23/09 5:38pm
Msg #281858

hahahaha, give me a break

how do you suppose zillions of borrowers got mortgages before mobile signing agents appeared on the scene?

We are a CONVENIENCE, period.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/23/09 7:44pm
Msg #281882

Re: hahahaha, give me a break, ROFL Sue, thanks

for bringing some perspective to the scene!

Reply by ChristineHI on 3/23/09 3:21pm
Msg #281819

One more thing, there is a difference between being paid directly from title on the HUD and getting paid at the time of the service, which would mean getting payment from the borrowers.
I would definately prefer to get paid from the HUD and require it from certain signing agencies as well in order to do business with them. It is true that appraisers etc have various ways of getting paid, but one thing that is true is that usually they are on the HUD.
If they are on the HUD they still have invoiced the client, usually the lender. The lender takes a deposit at the time of application from the borrower to cover appraisal and credit report costs as they are due even if the loan does not close. Sometimes the appraiser will get paid by the homeowner but most just invoice the lender/broker.
I do think that signing agencies should separate out their fee from our fee and then they get their check and we get our check from title, but they won't usually do that. I have tried. :-) Title also hired a signing agency for the convenience of not having to deal with the notary so they may not want it either.
Anyway, that is why I like working directly with title or the lender since we get paid at closing instead of the 30-45 days we wait for the signing companies.
:-)

Reply by MW/VA on 3/23/09 5:02pm
Msg #281851

It will never happen. For those who want "cash" jobs, there is always pizza delivery.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 6:22pm
Msg #281867

Never say Never!!!
It was a suggest, which is how change usually comes about.
This board is full of folks conplaining about companies who don't pay. I choose to look for solutions rather than keep filling the list of of non-payers. A company that pays well today may go out of business tomorrow.

Reply by PAW on 3/23/09 7:57pm
Msg #281885

Looking for solutions is great. But you need to look for **viable** solutions. Up front payment is a remote possibility, but payment at the table is not a solution worth pursuing unless someone from the hiring agency (SS, title co, lender) is at the table too. And you know that's just not in the cards.

Reply by mmjosey on 3/23/09 10:12pm
Msg #281911

What would be your ** viable solution*?

I put the question out there to open up discussion on the matter of non payment. Filling up the notary forums with a list of non payers doesn't help those who don't get paid after the fact. Most of the comments were about whether or not the words mobile notary and closing agents are interchangeble or whether or not our services are needed or just a luxury. The fact that there are so many of us doing this and doing it on a full time basis would indicate that our services are more than a luxury and needed. It's up to us to put a value on our services if we don't consider our services as more than just a conveinence no one else will.

I have in fact been paid at the closing table after completing an assignment twice, which is why I brought the sbject up. I have been lucky in the past, In that I've only lost about 300.00 of a period of 7 years due to companies that have not paid. however dealing with slow payers and companies whoes payday are a mystery has seriously affected my budget and ability to be prepared with the necssary supplies to continue working. My goal is to actually doe something about it and stop talking bout it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/24/09 9:01am
Msg #281942

" Filling up the notary forums with a list of non payers doesn't help those who don't get paid after the fact"

There are companies out there that do not pay, as evidenced by messages in this forum. But there are many more that do pay on schedule - sometimes it is 30-45 days, but they do pay.

Posting about the non-payers does help members of the forum, they make a note of the non-payers and when the non-paying company calls them, they just turn them down.

I always had a "credit limit" for "new to me" companies. I would do no more than three in a month for them until I saw how they paid. I have only been "burnt" twice.

Reply by Shelley Weinman on 3/25/09 8:49pm
Msg #282148

My 2 cents...

When I was doing witness signings from 2004 - Nov. 2007 more than 90% of signing services paid me within 30-45 days; I had a few that paid within 15 days. 100% of Title companies paid me within 7-10 days.

Being on the HUD is nice and it has happened for me; one TC even paid me within 3 days!

I don't know if I was just lucky, or if the people I worked with had good payment policy. Naw, the economic times were better - yeah that's the ticket! :>