Posted by snoopdogMs on 3/10/09 9:42am
Msg #280153

Readers????

I spoke with a friend in OH. that is a SA.. She asked me about a closing where the borrower did not know the loan was going to close that evening until she called, but agreed for Jan to come with the caveat that she was going to read everything. Well, there was 5 hours of reading as well as many calls to her LO.. I gave her my suggestion in the event this happens in the future but wonder how others would respond. If you know or see that the borrower or borrowers are going to read every word, what action would you take?

Reply by A-1 Signing Agents, LLC on 3/10/09 9:52am
Msg #280154

I always explain they have their own package and explain RTC as well. In a very nice way of course.

Reply by Ardel Richter on 3/10/09 10:23am
Msg #280157

Sounds to me like the NSA needs to work on their original presentation so that the B knows that reading for 5 hours is not an option.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/10/09 10:25am
Msg #280159

I am not paid to sit and watch someone read their paperwork. If someone told me ahead of time they were going to read every word, I'd call my client and either have someone deliver a copy to the borrower well ahead of my arrival or I'd turn the order back. Knock on wood ... I haven't had "true" readers for years. If that occurred when I arrived, I'd call my client, in front of the borrower, and say they intend to spend several hours reading and since I don't have that amount of time scheduled should I leave the paperwork with them or will someone arrange to get it to them at a later time.

Reply by Tess on 3/10/09 10:29am
Msg #280164

Re: I agree with Sue. n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/10/09 10:43am
Msg #280165

Re: I agree with Sue.

I agree also. I don't know why brws (who have closed a refi before) think they can sit and read for hours, they aren't allowed to do that in an in-house TC closing.
But you can't just sit there and allow them to compromise your whole schedule.
Sometimes a call to the hiring entity (in the brw's presence) can help "re-focus" them.

Reply by PAW on 3/10/09 12:48pm
Msg #280174

Au contraire

When doing closings at the title company, if the client wishes to read everything, we must let them do so. We will leave them to their own resources in a room in the back until they have finished. A closer will not sit with them to answer questions though. They are free to call their loan officer, real estate agent, anyone they so desire. Once they have satisfied themselves with the documents, then the closer can and will resume the closing. Probably not being able to answer as many questions as the loan officer would. (That's why often we encourage the loan officer to attend their closings, if possible.)

Obviously, we try to avoid the situation, but often that is not possible. And, most often, refinancing is not performed at the title company so most of the loans that are signed in-house do not have a rescission.

The Home Buying Institute (http://www.homebuyinginstitute.com) states in the article, "What to Expect at a Real Estate Closing" by Adrian Skiles:

"You have a right to read all of your closing documents before you sign. The closing attorney will give you concise explanations of each document. The closing documents must be executed as written. No changes may be made to the wording of the lenders closing loan documents."

Sources:

Home Buying Institute
3341 Fossil Lane
Austin, TX 78754


Adrian Skiles, GML

Mr. Skiles, GML has over 20 years experience in the mortgage and real estate industry. He is currently President/Broker of Florida MortgageGroup, Atlanta Mortgage Group and The Mortgage Group of North Carolina. On the web at http://www.efloridamortgagegroup.com/

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/10/09 1:45pm
Msg #280178

Re: Au contraire

They may get a back room to read in during regular office hours, but if they are planning to read starting at the appt. time of 4 PM, and the office closes at 5 PM, and the TC expects they will be reading past the office's closing time, the closing will likely be adjourned.
Of course they are entitled to read through the docs....but not on my time.
The lender should have provided them with ample time for document reading prior to the
appointment for the signing time.
If you want to allow 3+ hours reading time for one closing, that's entirely up to you.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/10/09 2:09pm
Msg #280180

Re: Au contraire

*When doing closings at the title company, if the client wishes to read everything, we must let them do so. *

True...but they might not get the presence of the closer and/or the "big room" if they want to read. Practicality will not allow for the cessation of business just because someone wants to read 100+ of fine print.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/10/09 2:13pm
Msg #280181

Re: Au contraire

Meant to finish this thought but surfed away...

I guess it all depends on how many rooms, closings and/or closers you have. I know of at least one situation where the readers were moved to the lobby to read, call lawyers, so forth, so on. It's the only one I can call to mind at the time, but pragmatically speaking the tc isn't going to delay hours of appointments so someone can read. A mobile closer might have to come back later.

Like Bob and sue said (paraphrased) 'get good at what you do so you don't get stuck with readers.

Reply by SharonMN on 3/10/09 11:07am
Msg #280167

If the borrower sounds unprepared, I always let them know my job is to help them sign the papers when they are ready and let them know they may have options. I suggest they call their lender, let them know they are not prepared, and see if they can be sent a document package to read ahead of time, with the appointment to be rescheduled at a later time. Then I'd call the hiring entity and let them know borrower's not ready to make an appointment yet.

I would never agree to sit through an appointment where someone was going to read 100 pages word for word - but I would also never imply that the borrower isn't entitled to do that until AFTER they sign. Many people are willing to use the RTC to go through the documents, but not everyone is comfortable with that, nor do they have to be.

Bottom line - the borrower is in control. If they aren't ready, the signing isn't going to go smoothly or happen at all. Not my job to try to railroad it through.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/10/09 1:34pm
Msg #280177

Potential problem situation.

In home signing with NO RTC such as a vacation home, investment or purchase.
Need to use your best technique in describing the dox in such a way that
they do not feel that it is necessry to read them.
Have had a few long signings under these circumstances. but , thankfully,
very few.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/10/09 2:23pm
Msg #280182

The fact that they're potential 'readers' ...

...is IMO/E evidence that they're in unfamiliar territory, and usually not entirely thrilled with their loan officer (seeding trust issues). Plain & simple, if they're reading disclosures & boiler-plate stuff, they may as well be reading the Magna Carta. What they want is straight talk & simple answers, and confidence begets confidence. If they don't feel immediately confident with your delivery, the lack of trust they already had just gets compounded.

If they DO know what they're reading - they're done if 5 minutes.

I do wish consumers would behave like they do when they're buying a new dress or a can of tomatoes, for Pete's sake. They have the right to ASK for a pkg ahead of time, they have the RIGHT to INSIST (after all, it's not closing until THEY say it's closing, either!), and there used to be a time when doing up 'atty pkgs' a day ahead of closing was the norm. The consumer LET the industry push time constraints on them, and then we walk in the front door ...

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/10/09 2:24pm
Msg #280183

Amen Renee n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/10/09 3:14pm
Msg #280189

Have to agree with that, Renee. Just

not on my time--unless they're willing to up the fee to cover it. Fat chance of that, soooo
get 'em o/n to the B, already.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/10/09 6:10pm
Msg #280205

Re: The fact that they're potential 'readers' ...

"is IMO/E evidence that they're in unfamiliar territory, and usually not entirely thrilled with their loan officer (seeding trust issues). "

I think that's very true. However, I also think the BO personality has a lot to do with it, too. Additionally, some people are mentally quicker than others. Just no getting around it. I remember one signing for a single man, easy, relatively small package, that I thought was going to be quick. Turns out he was retired from some trade where he worked with his hands, not with documents. After nearly every signature, he leaned back in his chair, huffed out a breath and had some comment about how many pages there were. He was very pleasant and not interested in reading everything, but he was a bit overwhelmed by the "volume" of pages. He was just going to proceed at his own pace, regardless of anything I said or did. (I think he was also just glad to have some company... )

Reply by SharonMN on 3/10/09 7:35pm
Msg #280212

Re: The fact that they're potential 'readers' ...

Amen to the consumer's right to stick up for themselves!

I do take exception to the fact that a reader is automatically unfamiliar and confused. I'm a reader. On principle, I just feel obliged to read anything I have to sign. (Then again, I write disclosures for a living. ) I would never allow a notary to just show up with papers I hadn't read - and I have insisted on complete packages to read at least a full day before closing when I've been the borrower.

Reply by LynnNC on 3/10/09 10:08pm
Msg #280249

SharonMN, So, how do YOU handle a reader?

Are you willing to stay three hours for them to read everything?

Reply by sue_pa on 3/11/09 8:00am
Msg #280285

Re: The fact that they're potential 'readers' ...

I am completely the opposite. I feel no need to READ anything in a loan package. Why would I want to read all pages of the W-9? What about the Occupancy Agg? I know exactly what the Note says so if the interest rate and term are correct I'm good to go. When I've done my own loans, I tell the lawyer what my rate and term are and what I'm expecting bottom line in or out. If those are correct I don't hear from him ... I show up, he hands me a stack of paperwork and I sign away. I can glance at what I need on the documents that aren't boiler plate in seconds.

And all that said, I would NEVER allow a "certified signing agent" to touch my paperwork due to so many clueless people posting on these boards. If someone showed up at my house with a rolling briefcase as I've recently read on 123 I wouldn't even let them in the door. They need my little pile of paperwork, a pen and a notay stamp.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/11/09 9:52am
Msg #280291

Re: The fact that they're potential 'readers' ...Sue

I use a rollaround for reasons that are my own....and I carry much more to a signing than just the "little pile of paperwork, a pen and a notay stamp.".... never been refused entry into a home because of the type of briefcase I carry. If you don't want to let me in because of my briefcase (and I can just hear tc/ss's reaction to THAT report) well, hey, it's your money - guess we'd have a no-sign....

MHO

Reply by sue_pa on 3/11/09 10:20am
Msg #280293

I truly am curious

as I said, there are MANY reasons I would not allow my loans to be closed this way. I've done them in my lawyer's office or done my own as mail-aways.

BUT, what do you carry with you ... I am not being smart, I just don't udnerstand. This one girl posted she carries maps, flashlight, xx amount of loan docs, etc. Why in the world would a map go inside with you? I too carry a flashlight but it's one of those little magna thingys barely bigger than a nice smelly black magic marker - fits nicely into my little toot. I've got a HUGE deer spotter that stays in the car. More than one set of loan docs? I've got 4 appts. this evening. when I walk into the smith's house, I 'll have their paperwork in my hand. The Miller's, Wilson's and Jones' paperwork stays in the car. Others have said notary handbook ... I've never carried one nor have I ever thought at the table I wished I had one ... no idea how not having one would stop a deal at the table and I for one would certainly never whip out a book to "show" a borrower that I am correct. Loose Jurats, acks, etc? Totally beyond me. I know most loan packages and I use a stamp - not a loose one on the few occasions I need something. Example - yesterday I did a Wells Fargo. I know at the very end of their package there is some type correction agg that has an unusable ack for PA. As I print, I stamp the correct ack on and when I come to it during the closing I notarize away. I've got a Superior Mortgge this evening ... I know the hold harmless agg towards the end requires a venue - I've already stamped it on. the few times I do need to doctor up a notarization after the fact I put that sheet of paper at the top of the pile for when I get back. Stapler, binder clips, tablets, stickies, etc. ... all beyond my comprehension. Truly, what do you take with you that you need routinely other than the paperwork, stamp & pen?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/11/09 10:31am
Msg #280294

Re: I truly am curious

Confirmation of signing and driving directions, two sets of docs, journal, lock-pouch (with seal, embosser, identification stamp), shipping envelope (package is shipped immediately after closing so I seal the signed package in the courier envelope before the borrowers get their copies) pens, tape, calculator (which has been requested more than once), additional blank acks/jurats as a matter of course, post-its for notes from borrower back to lender, letter size note pad, and probably some other things that I just don't remember right now...

Will all this fit in a standard briefcase? Probably - but I use a rollaround for reason that are my own...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/12/09 3:05am
Msg #280396

Re: I truly am curious

Me, too. Most docs don't have room for all the verbiage required for CA acks so I've never found it worth having a stamp. I do have a jurat stamp, but once in a while I don't have room for that, either. I also carry certs of both types in both letter and legal size. One other thing not mentioned is a receipt book for general notary work. I like not having to think about these things, just knowing that whatever might come up, I'm ready.

I think I still have a handbook in there, too, although it's only come in handy a couple of times. Most notable was with an attorney who couldn't find her DL and wanted me to use another gvmt ID that didn't meet state requirements. I showed her the handbook, she read the passage, and it was end of discussion. As for the case on wheels, I have back problems from time to time, and I've sure been happy to have it on those occasions when I've been searching through a huge apartment complex trying to find the right number. It also allows me to keep my journal and notary stamp locked up -- another state requirement.