Posted by SharonH/OH on 1/26/11 6:54am
Msg #370108

Borrower copies

This has probably been covered before, but I could not find it. I've run into a similar situation once before with a RESPA app, but never before on a refinance.

This was a normal edocs refinance closing. Title sends me two sets of documents, the larger being the complete set, and a smaller one that is to be borrower's copies only. The entire set is 100+ pages, but borrower's includes only the HUD, Note, 1st Payment ltr and RTC - that's it. Title tells me to give the Borrowers just their smaller set, and that they would be mailing borrowers a complete copy.

I was very uncomfortable - how are the Borrowers supposed to review everything before their 3 days run out? Yet Borrowers had already talked to Title and were ok with it. Were those 4 documents sufficient? Anybody know the legalities on this?

Reply by PAW on 1/26/11 7:02am
Msg #370109

Nothing wrong with this. The title company and/or lender is probably going to furnish fully executed copies of the documents. (Fully executed means signed by ALL parties.) If the borrowers objected, title/lender may agree to leaving unexecuted copies for their perusal, but that is often not the case. The 'important' documents are the Note, RTC, HUD and 1PL (First Payment Letter). I would also include the Mortgage or DOT in that group. The rest are 'junk' docs, usually the same in all packages, for covering legalities like the Compliance Agreement, Survey Affidavit, etc.

Reply by SharonH/OH on 1/26/11 7:23am
Msg #370111

Thanks, Paul. Makes me feel much better.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/26/11 7:40am
Msg #370112

What Paul said - but I think the TIL should also be included

in fact, I think it has to be...along with the itemization.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/26/11 7:42am
Msg #370113

And also make sure there are 2 recission notices

per borrower (or party in interest) in their copy

Reply by SharonH/OH on 1/26/11 8:46am
Msg #370120

Re: What Paul said - but I think the TIL should also be included

I wondered about that one too - but neither the TIL nor itemization were included. I always go over the TIL in detail, and I did make sure they had sufficient RTC (5 copies were included). I also made sure they knew that even though title would not receive the docs for 2 days (late evening closing), they could always contact title the next day to get emailed docs if they wanted to. They seemed unconcerned, though.

I am curious on how others would have handled this. Linda - would you have gone ahead with providing a copy of the TIL and itemization, even though title specifically had said to provide their copy package only? Is it UPL to provide more than we are asked?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/26/11 8:56am
Msg #370121

I would have -

I'd call and confirm "just this borrower copy as provided?" - and ask if they'd like me to make a copy of the TIL and Itemization to add to it..

Not only is it a RESPA regulation, but the Notice of Right to Cancel specifically states:

"You have a legal right under federal law to cancel this transaction, without cost, within THREE BUSINESS DAYS from whichever of the following events occurs last:
(1) The date of the transaction, which is XXXX ; or
(2) The date you received your Truth in Lending disclosures; or
(3) The date you received this notice of your right to cancel"

They have 3 days from the latter of the above dates - so IMO it's imperative that they get the TIL at the same time.

Like I said...I'd just ask them if they'd like me to do that. - not only a CYA move..but a CTA (covering theirs)...

Reply by PAW on 1/26/11 9:30am
Msg #370128

Re: I would have -

FWIW, in my last refi, the TIL and itemization were provided prior to 'closing'. They were received with the final GFE which also included a "preliminary final HUD". Included was a notice from the lender that if any fee or charge varied from the preliminary documents, new documents would be provided at closing. So it may be that the borrowers have already received certain critical documents.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/26/11 9:47am
Msg #370137

But we don't know that unless we ask...

so barring notice from the company that it's been provided, offering to make a copy to include should bring out they answer "they already have that"...

Just a thought..

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/26/11 10:38am
Msg #370147

Re: I would have -

I would probably email the question to them so that I had written confirmation as well. That way you have proof to CYA as well.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/26/11 11:04am
Msg #370152

Re: I would have -

I think I would have just provided a copy of the TIL and not bothered asking the TC. Then my rear is covered and it's one less phone call to TC for me to make. I would have made a note on my own records that I provided a copy of the TIL.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/26/11 8:15am
Msg #370116

I've seen that also on those rare occasions when the tc designates "borrower copy". I've also seen it when docs are overnighted to me or the borrower. It seems they only give the borrower a copy of the critical docs. I follow instructions, but always make sure there are the required 2 copies of the RTC anyway. This certainly makes more sense than our printing the entire copy pkg. for them, but it's not my decision to make.

Reply by SharonH/OH on 1/26/11 2:45pm
Msg #370182

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I'm hoping I don't run into this situation very frequently, as I would much rather leave knowing the borrower has a complete copy of everything they signed. It also allows for having those extra copies available in the event a re-do is needed.

Reply by rolomia on 1/27/11 1:46am
Msg #370223

JMHO but I always provide a copy of the entire package to the borrowers. It's their loan and they are entitled to a copy of all docs. Of course, I always tell this to the TC or SS up front and have never had a problem. I let them know that it's a non-negotiable issue. The cost to print a second set is reasonable and I want a to have backup copy in case of errors by borrowers. I am continually reading and studying real estate documents in my studies for my RE license. I've only performed 170+ closings as an NSA in 6 1/2 years. But, I feel confident enough to know what works best for me and the borrowers I meet with.