Posted by Bravo on 1/2/11 12:42am
Msg #366706

Journal entries

I would appreciate hearing from some of the California notaries with regard to how you are handling the expense of the notary journals now that we have to follow this Govt. Code Section 8206. Is there a more economical way of purchasing these journals? Is there a different type out there? At $12-14 each, this is RIDICULOUS! There's got to be a better way. Looking forward to your input/ideas.

Reply by kathy/ca on 1/2/11 10:09am
Msg #366715

Are you asking because we need to make a separate line item

for each notorial act?

Reply by Bravo on 1/2/11 10:22am
Msg #366716

Re: Are you asking because we need to make a separate line item

I'm asking because the Govt code has now made that necessary, yes, and its proving to be quite costly buying the journals that I need. Any suggestions? What are some of you doing?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/11 10:34am
Msg #366718

Isn't this the way it's been for you in CA for a long time?

I don't believe this is anything new...

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/2/11 10:39am
Msg #366722

When I started in CA back in 2002....

I used up a journal every 6 weeks. Maybe you need to find a less expensive journal!

Reply by Bravo on 1/2/11 10:59am
Msg #366725

Re: When I started in CA back in 2002....

THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING SUGGESTIONS FOR...WHERE DO SOME OTHER BUYS THEIR JOURNALS.......IF YOU ARE PAYING LESS SHOSHANA, WHERE DO YOU BUY THEM?

Reply by James Dawson on 1/2/11 11:36am
Msg #366729

what's wrong with the prices here? NotRot? n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/2/11 11:55am
Msg #366730

Perhaps you are asking the wrong question. 8206 is been around for a long time. It's nothing new. You post like it is. It deals with more than just journal entry. I am not going to tell you how I do it, I will just say that I use the journal sold here and my attorney is very familiar with notary law and using his advice, I don't go through journals as fast as others seem to.

Some people also think 8206 requires you hand over your journal on request to authorities. Not the case.

My advice would be to see an attorney familiar with notary law. Get the NR journal first. It's the best in the business, in my opinion.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/2/11 12:13pm
Msg #366734

Glenn, I hope you are not insinuating that an attorney has advised you that it is acceptable to do multiple documents per entry, as this flies in the face of the directives of the Secretary of State who appointed you. I would like to know if, in response to a complaint filed against you, how much the SOS would put faith in an attorney's opinion over their own interpretation of notary law.

There are many other journals out there besides the MOJO, many of which are quite inexpensive. I would suggest checking on Amazon.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/11 2:07pm
Msg #366747

The MoJo is a journal that is customized for signing agents.

The notary makes one journal entry for each signing appointment, checks the box next to the documents that were notarized, and adds to the list if necessary.

The MoJo covers five, ten, or however many documents signed at the same date and time by the same signer all on one line.

It is my understanding that the MoJo has been approved by the California SOS.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/11 2:19pm
Msg #366749

Not exactly "approved" by Ca. SOS, but

You can reader it for yourself. I remembered that Harry had provided it to them, and there were no huge problems identified with it.

A thorough review of this subject here: Msg #10013

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/3/11 3:32pm
Msg #366872

Re: Not exactly "approved" by Ca. SOS, but

I recall seeing a message last year from Harry that reversed this - the CA SOS is now saying that the MoJo format is not acceptable, and each document had to be on a separate line. I did a quick search but couldn't find the message, but I distinctly recall reading it...

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/3/11 3:42pm
Msg #366873

Oops, I misspoke (mistyped?)

Harry didn't say the MoJo was not acceptable, only that a) it could be used either way, b) the statute itself is not clear on the requirement for single line per document, and c) a written opinion from the SOS would be your best guide (good luck getting one of those...)

See Msg #322505

Reply by James Dawson on 1/2/11 3:23pm
Msg #366753

Thanks Brenda...a lot of us (Ca notaries) have interpreted this differently than the majority of posters here nationwide so we are prepared to deal with any discrepancies that may arise.

No need to debate this, do what you feel is right for you......in California, is what I would say.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/2/11 5:39pm
Msg #366766

Brenda, thanks for the message number.

I knew it was there somewhere, but I searched high and low and couldn't find it.


I bow to your superior post finding abilities.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/2/11 3:17pm
Msg #366751

I agree, Glenn. Nothing new here, except for NNA's comments on it - and they probably sell lots more journals now, since they brought up the issue. Judge for yourselves regarding their credibility - and keep in mind that they do NOT have any authority to make determinations regarding what is and isn't legal. (They're also in direct competition to Notary Rotary when it comes to selling supplies.) It's up to each one of us to make that decision for ourselves, on advice of counsel or otherwise. BTW, I also exclusively use the MoJo available here.

And Brenda, thanks for posting the link to Harry's comments about his communications with the CA SOS about his journal.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/2/11 3:51pm
Msg #366758

You can make your own...

There's absolutely no reason why you can't just use a regular notebook if you're concerned about the cost. State law only requires that we record certain information for each notarial act.

Now, lots of CA notaries interpret this differently... but I go from what the Sec of State's office released last year on the subject. Harry posted those vendor meeting notes. This wasn't the NNA's interpretation... this was right on the Sec of State's letterhead:


"Q, When multiple notarial acts are performed, is it acceptable for a diagonal line to be drawn
from the first document to the last document in the notary public journal with a single signature
covering all transactions? In addition, can ditto (“) marks be used in the journal?

A. Government Code section 8206 requires that the notary public's journal include all the
information for "each official act." Therefore, each act would include the date, time, type of
each official act, character of the instrument, signature, type of identification, fee, and
thumbprint (if applicable) on a separate line for each act."


That's pretty clear to me -- each act must be on a separate line, and we cannot use diagonal lines or ditto marks.

I do use the MoJo journal sold here, but I don't utilize the multiple act feature... though I do think it's handy for those that do use it. I just don't think it's much of a matter of interpretation.

The thing is, though... this document was NOT published on the Sec of State's website. These were meeting notes from a meeting for notary education vendors.

My reasoning is pretty simple on this. We're told that we have to record certain info for each act. If there are 10 notarizations in a loan package... that's 10 different acts. Pretty simple.

It's also important in case we are asked to provide a line copy of a journal entry. State law requires anyone asking for a copy supply the name, date and nature of the document before you can supply them the copy. If they ask for the line affiliated with a Deed of Trust, you can't give them one affiliated with a Power of Attorney. If you use multiple entries, you'd be doing just that.

If all you want to do is save money on journals, make one for yourself that records the required information. I know of at least 3 notaries who do this, and I've been working on a design for myself, too. One man I know keeps a simple, blank notebook in his pocket and writes everything out freehand. It's perfectly legal since he records the required information for each act.

But seriously... part of being a notary involves purchasing supplies. There are plenty of cheap journals out there. If you're going through them that quickly, then consider buying them in bulk.

Reply by Bravo on 1/2/11 6:24pm
Msg #366771

Re: You can make your own...

Thank you Marian. Now THAT was the sound advice I was looking for! I did not intend to make it sound as if I thought the Govt Code was new. The truth is that frankly, this is the first year that I adhered to it, hence the reason I am going through so many journals. I will definitely check out this MoJo journal spoken of. Thanks so much.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/11 7:51pm
Msg #366778

Just a comment about journals...

I have a sneaking suspicion that if a notary goes to court the lawyers will be relieved if the notary keeps any kind of a journal. Life experience has taught me that those who really work at knowing what they are supposed to do may not be the standard.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/3/11 12:37am
Msg #366801

Re: Just a comment about journals...

That may just also include SS and TC

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/3/11 1:29am
Msg #366803

Re: Just a comment about journals...

Brenda, for many states... that might be true. But in California it's the law, and we have very specific information that we have to record for each notarial act. If we are called to court and can't provide it (or documentation that we notified the SoS about a lost journal) we could get fined for failing to perform our duties, and have our commission suspended or revoked. Depending on the situation, it could mean jail time, too.

Sadly, there are plenty of CA notaries who don't pay attention to this, even though there are quite a few questions on the notary exam about fines/jail time for different offenses.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/3/11 12:50am
Msg #366802

Journals hold approx. 1,000 line entries and cost 20 bucks. I do three times the general notary work than loan signings and it takes me about six months to use up 1,000 line entries. Therefore, I'm spending 40 bucks a year for journals. How many journals are you using per year where the cost for you is "ridiculous"?