Posted by Carol Graff on 1/8/11 11:02am
Msg #367580

NBS in California

I've searched the posts, but still not sure on this one. A woman owned property in her own name before marrying and never added the new spouse. She is now refinancing--does the new spouse need to be on any docs if she is qualifying on her own and does not want to add him to title?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/8/11 11:04am
Msg #367581

Ask title...they should advise you on this. n/m

Reply by Carol Graff on 1/8/11 11:13am
Msg #367584

Re: Ask title...they should advise you on this.

I already did the signing on Thurs. but was never told to add the husband. (nor were there any papers in there for him to sign). I just started thinking about it as it was the first time I have not had to add a NBS. In retrospect, perhaps the others I've done the spouse was already on title, or they wanted them on title but not on note (bad credit, etc.).

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/8/11 12:04pm
Msg #367595

Title didn't tell you to, so that's that.

It is possible that the NBS has a pre-nup with the wife, or the husband has previously executed a conveyance instrument in favor of the wife to convey the interest that the NBS might have ever had in the property. I've seen it happen.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/8/11 2:05pm
Msg #367610

Re: Title didn't tell you to, so that's that.

Brenda is correct, that could have already been done (maybe a previous refi). Bottom line we are not always privy to that information. In answer to your question? There MUST be an Intersposal Grant Deed..somewhere.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/8/11 2:45pm
Msg #367623

Re: Title didn't tell you to, so that's that....James

"MUST be an Intersposal Grant Deed..somewhere."

Even if it was property obtained prior to the marriage? I'm not familiar with CA real property law, that's why I'm asking.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/8/11 5:39pm
Msg #367664

Re: Title didn't tell you to, so that's that....James

IT IS an absolute must Linda

Reply by Les_CO on 1/8/11 11:59am
Msg #367594

IMO….. CA is a “community property” State wherein having a spouse is like a tax lien maybe not recorded but always there. I would have had the spouse sign TIL/DOT/RTC/ Itemization of amount financed.

Reply by OR on 1/8/11 12:17pm
Msg #367597

I agree with Brinda you never know what is going on. However I always have them sign 2 sets. One with one name and one with both names. That way Title has everything they need to close.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/8/11 12:17pm
Msg #367596

Perhaps, if it was income property, the wife's separate property, and no community funds ever were applied to the purchase or maintenance of the property, the husband did not need to sign.

Not intended as a legal opinion.

Reply by Linda Snell on 1/8/11 12:23pm
Msg #367598

Since I'm not a lawyer I do not try to second guess the title company and lender.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/8/11 1:12pm
Msg #367600

I don't do anything that is beyond the instructions given. I do call with questions, if someone is available, if not, I proceed according to instructions.

In this case, the property is not even community property since it was bought before the marriage. Legally, in my opinion, she can do anything she wants. She can refinance it as her sole and separate property. I still own some property in this fashion that I bought between wives. But of course, it's not up to you, the notary to advise anyone on this. That is for an attorney schooled in real estate and community property laws.

Of course, I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice, just my honest opinion.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/8/11 2:13pm
Msg #367611

Glenn did/does your latter wife LIVE in this property when you re-financed?
I was assuming this was the “family residence” that was being refinanced, not an income property.
Always best to do ‘as instructed’, I guess the worse that could happen is that you make a second trip.
I (not a lawyer) posted my opinion based on my assumptions.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/8/11 2:13pm
Msg #367612

***the property is not even community property since it was bought before the marriage.***

Glenn, that is not necessarily, nor even usually, the case. Even if a property is owned prior to marriage, if community funds were used in paying off or maintaining property, I believe it then becomes part of the community estate, at least in Texas. I suspect the same is true in other community property states.

That being said, if the signing agent is going to concern herself with the issue, it should only be to raise the question with title, not to take action.

Not a legal opinion.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/8/11 3:19pm
Msg #367629

To clarify IMO…a lien does not necessarily denote “ownership” but an interest in. You can have “as sole and separate property” written 16 times on a deed and it does NOT mean that the “spouse” doesn’t have a “piece” of it, or its proceeds in a community property state. Be it real or personal property. This “piece” is usually decided by negotiation, not by fact, law, or deed. There are exceptions, and as laymen I sure don’t know them all. Especially in Texas…something about a horse, and a gun? Maybe Hugh can fill us uninformed in?

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/8/11 4:51pm
Msg #367658

The whole thing depends on how the term "community funds" is defined. Here in the Crazy state of California where many of the marriage and divorce statues were influenced by those crazy Hollywood people who change spouses on a regular bases, the term "community funds" is pretty hazy.

That's why it's best to let the lawyers work it out and notaries to be wary of UPL in cases such as this.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/8/11 9:32pm
Msg #367696

<<<The whole thing depends on how the term "community funds" is defined.>>>

Community funds.....AKA - Joint checking account

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/8/11 9:33pm
Msg #367697

<<<Even if a property is owned prior to marriage, if community funds were used in paying off or maintaining property, I believe it then becomes part of the community estate, at least in Texas. I suspect the same is true in other community property states.>>>

This applies to CA too.

Reply by 101livescan on 1/8/11 2:36pm
Msg #367620

Can't second guess title. Varies state to state any way. Good part is if something was left out, you get to go out again for an additional fee, YEEHAW!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/8/11 5:49pm
Msg #367666

I agree with Cheryl that we shouldn't second guess, but when I've run into that type of situation in the past, it seems to me that they needed to have an Interspousal Transfer Deed (or something along that line) signed and recorded. The type of Deed seems to vary significantly. Not for me to question, but I wouldn't assume anything. I would, however, probably either make a phone call to title or attach a note with the documents, to make sure.

Reply by Carol Graff on 1/8/11 6:01pm
Msg #367667

Thank you everyone. I sent an email to SS and they will get back to me. Recission ends Monday--if need be, I can go back. Escrow is in same town also. Don't know what I'd do w/o all of your input!