Posted by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 9:33am
Msg #368377

The NotaryNow saga continues...

http://www.google.com/search?q=Chris+Hawkins+notary&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

News releases every place you look.

1-How can you get a venue from a notarization of this type?

2-How can the personal appearance criteria be met?

3-If this is justified by any state office, where will that lead the future of other notaries?

4-A few months back, President Obama rejected a bill to create recognition of notarizations across state lines. How does this type of notarization fit in with that?

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 9:39am
Msg #368380

I'm going to settle down now and stop fuming for a littlewhile, but this is the kind of stuff they are putting out. You can see where this is going.

Newport Beach, CA (PRWEB) Jan 12, 2011

Before scheduling a mobile notary or using to a internal notary’s office, check out NotaryNow, a initial online notarization website.

http://crazygreco.com/notarynow-offers-worlds-first-online-notarization-service/

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/13/11 10:42am
Msg #368419

Our MO SOS Notary Commissions Division...

...had not heard of NotaryNow until I sent them an e-mail yesterday asking questions. They're looking into them now.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/13/11 1:31pm
Msg #368485

That's a pretty weird translation of the original press release.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/13/11 2:47pm
Msg #368502

I was wondering if it was done via computerized transcription of an audio statement. If that's the quality of their technology, pretty scary - not that the possibility that the public will jump on this isn't scary enough!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/13/11 9:41am
Msg #368382

I don't want to click and give them any more press

than they've already received...I'll just say that IMO Venue would have to be waived across the board by all SOS's OR the venue would be where the NOTARIZATION took place....their office? NJ, CA, etc.l and as for Personal appearance - as to FL's definitions right now, who defines personal appearance as physical presence, it can't be met.

Reply by Jack/AL on 1/13/11 9:50am
Msg #368385

Re: I don't want to click and give them any more press

I had difficulty just reading their blurb, due to wording and grammar ineptness (on the part of the writer). Anyone can say anything, or at least make a pathetic attempt at such.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 9:53am
Msg #368388

Unfortunately, Jack

Until I saw these on the google links, the others were well written.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 10:09am
Msg #368398

Re: I don't want to click and give them any more press

This is Chris from NotaryNow.com, we agree that the venue is where the notarization took place. I cannot speak to what FL law says, but I can say we do not use any notaries from Florida at this time.

Chris

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/13/11 10:12am
Msg #368401

"we do not use any notaries from Florida at this time."

And hopefully your won't get any to buy into this - as our presence requirements stand right now you're skirting the law and the notarizations would be invalid.

Now we can only hope that CONSUMERS don't buy into it - and end up later with a bogus notarization.

I'll hold any further comments until I hear from our SOS with regard to the validity of this platform.

Reply by Victoria L. Miller on 1/13/11 1:17pm
Msg #368474

Re: "we do not use any notaries from Florida at this time."

Well said Linda, thanks for your imput. I won't be breaking any laws by using a program like this one.

Reply by rengel/CA on 1/13/11 1:18pm
Msg #368477

What states are you performing notarizations in at this time n/m

Reply by A S Johnson on 1/13/11 9:47am
Msg #368383

Brenda,
I have e-mailed Phil King, my State Rep, on this.
My I suggest, ALL do the same to thier state elected representative.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 9:52am
Msg #368387

Thank you, Sid.

I am concerned that is where this will need to go.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/13/11 9:48am
Msg #368384

Who's going to be the custodian of the video recordings?

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/13/11 10:07am
Msg #368394

NOT a slam at Californians, but it seems that these guys

are located in Newport Beach , CA.
For whatever reason, a large number of west coast financial scam artists are located
in that fair city.
East coasters tend to congregate in the Ft. Lauderdal , FL area.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 10:16am
Msg #368405

Re: NOT a slam at Californians, but it seems that these guys

Bob,

Interesting opinion. Let me just tell you where we are coming from. We saw many notary frauds over the last few years, and decided to do something about it. We created this system to do a better job at answering the question "Did someone actually sign this?"

At the end of the day, we are trying to prevent fraud, whether they are here or somewhere else. Hopefully we will make some types of scam artists and extinct species.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/13/11 11:31am
Msg #368439

All other legal issues, aside, how can the notary public

be sure that there is not an off camera person with a gun aimed at the signer.
BTW, my Newport Beach comment was merely an observation, and in no way inteneded to
imply that your company was one of the finacial scammers.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 12:01pm
Msg #368451

Re: All other legal issues, aside, how can the notary public

Bob,

Not offended, I understand. You are right that a lot of mortgages originated in Orange County, which is probably some of which you were talking about.

We actually get the gun question often. My best answer is that in that particular case 1) even if we could see the person with the gun, we would complete the notarization because it wouldn't be worth the person getting killed over (then we would call the police) 2) there is a risk for every notary that there is some kind of duress (physical or otherwise) that cannot be seen (so someone in the car, or the next room with a gun, in this example). 3) I cannot imagine a situation in which the signer who was signing a contract (say, title to a car) under threat of a gun would then expect to actually be held to the contract, regardless of whether the contract was notarized.

Obviously, it is important that the notary take reasonable steps to ensure a signer is not under duress. Our notaries have all signers state that they are signing of their own free will and every notary has to check that the person is not under duress (in their mandatory checklist built into the software).

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 12:14pm
Msg #368453

Chris: National E-Notarization Standards

Electronic standards call for physical presence. This is from the group that administers and manages notary commissions across the 50 states.

*From the Nat'l Assoc of Secretaries of State's "National E-Notarization Standards":

"Under no circumstance shall a notary public base identification merely upon familiarity with a signer's electronic signature or an electronic verification process that authenticates the signer's electronic signature >>>when the signer is not in the physical presence<<< of the notary public."

The complete Standard:
http://www.law.upenn.edu/bll/archives/ulc/ulona/2010feb26_standards.pdf*

By the way, I got this from another notary; she can own it when she gets here and reads this thread.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/13/11 6:17pm
Msg #368545

So Chris, n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/13/11 6:25pm
Msg #368547

Re: So Chris,

So Chris, is it your plan to market as much product as you can, collect as much as you can and then be gone in a few weeks? Not making any accusations, just asking.

If not, what else can it be? The service you market is not legal in California. Or perhaps I am wrong. Tell you what, prove me wrong and quote the passage in the handbook where the notary does not need a physical presence.

The timing is curious as our state services are strapped financially, we have a new Attorney General that just took office who is up to her neck in leftover work, so it will be a little while before any complaints against you are investigated.

I am not an attorney, so this is just my honest opinion. Perhaps you can prove me wrong. So prove me wrong.

Reply by notarynowcom on 1/13/11 10:08am
Msg #368395

Hi,

I'm Chris from NotaryNow.com, and I'm going to try to actively work to answer all of your questions to the best of my ability. First, I'd like to say that our #1 goal is to increase the number of notarizations used and the quality of those notarizations in a convenient manner. We have developed our system with that in mind. We are not trying to bypass the system, which is why we have spent the last year working on something that works to augment a traditional notary's role and abilities with the latest technology. As for your questions:
1) A notary should follow the laws of where they are located, any notary that uses us does the same
2) Every state has different language requirements for personal appearance. "Personal" means someone cannot appear on your behalf, and "appear" means that you are able to see them. A webcam is a tool to do that.
3) Good question, we hope that notarization as a whole can become more secure and convenient
4) While we believe that bill was good law, the veto does not affect us.

I am happy to take advice from you, the experts, on how to make this better.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by MW/VA on 1/13/11 10:11am
Msg #368399

It's an intriguing concept. I'm still not getting it. How do you verify that the person appearing on the webcam is the person authorized to sign the doc? How do you verify ID? Are you using this to sign/notarize loan docs?

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 10:59am
Msg #368427

Hi, Chris from NotaryNow.com

Happy to try to describe. Here is the quick version of the process:
The signer uploads ID and document
Then, they go through KBA (knowledge based or out of wallet) authentication, which is a series of questions based on the public records that only they can answer
They are connected to a notary in a web session that has a 2 way web video conference and their document, where the notary checks them against the uploaded ID and watches them sign the document with their mouse
The document has signatures and seals that look like a pen-and-ink notarization, but with a digital certificate too.
We keep a detailed journal and record the video session (this recorded video session is ultimately a very powerful record that can be used to help ensure the individual signed).

Regarding the type of document, our notaries will use the same methodology as any notary to determine whether they should sign a document or if the notary block language is appropriate. Loan docs are one of many potential documents that we would consider.

Chris
NotaryNow

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/13/11 1:37pm
Msg #368489

"a series of questions based on the public records that only they can answer"

If they're based on public records, ANYONE can have the answer to them. That's why they're called public records...

Reply by Deseree Wynne on 1/13/11 3:15pm
Msg #368511

Wow all that at an attempt to save the public some $$$? I am all for technological advancements but this is getting too ridiculous. At every turn somebody or some company trying to "get in the middle" of what a Notary is supposed to do.

Reply by Jack/AL on 1/13/11 5:08pm
Msg #368538

Chris ........... I'm really trying to understand. Maybe it's not as difficult as some of us are trying to make it. You lost me several posts ago at "authentication, which is a series of questions based on the public records that only they can answer." Golly, call me slow, but f the questions are based on public records, won't you, the singers, and everyone else with access to the public records have the answers?

Reply by ikando on 1/13/11 10:19am
Msg #368407

Chris, so glad you popped in.

Am I to understand that your company's press release is directed at notaries (your response 1)? The way I read the release, the general public is being offered your service. If I am correct, with the lack of awareness of notary law held by the general public, how can your service be considered legal in any state? As an example, the Webster's definition of appear, and the definition by law are not necessarily the same.

While I applaud your incentive to make things more simple for persons needing a notary, I personally believe you've bitten off more than you can handle. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 1/13/11 10:28am
Msg #368409

Personal Appearance - Hand me your ID.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 10:32am
Msg #368412

Yes Lavergne~I dont think it matters what state, the ID has to be physically examined by the Notary.

My thoughts are Chris, you are taking away the one very crucial element that makes Notaries important to any transaction or document that needs a Notary.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:06am
Msg #368431

Well, I actually think our electronic KBA verification and video recordings of the signings are tools that are not required that we go above and beyond on. We also force every notary to go through a checklist regarding Identification, Acknowledgement, Document, Duress, and Awareness prior to completing any signing. Technology lets us find new ways to ensure that someone actually signed.
Great thoughts!
Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 11:10am
Msg #368432

While your video records and KBA verification tools are admirable; there is no basis in law for your venture.

It is none of my business, but I would be curious about your legal advisor's remarks on this, if you received legal counsel.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/13/11 10:32am
Msg #368414

***I'm going to try to actively work to answer all of your questions***

Chris, I don't think you have addressed the two major concerns of the people who have responded to the postings on this issue.

The first, of course, is an economic issue. Understand that if <you> are successful, <we> may well be rendered unsuccessful. You will eliminate the need for notaries public in many instances. That's our problem to address, though, not yours.

The second is more immediate, and more concerned with the professional aspects of your proposal. None of what I have seen posted -- and the NotRot postings are my only acquaintance with it -- indicates there is any cautionary note at all accompanying your material. So, if the typical Texan wishes to have an Authorization for Treatment notarized, he's not going to have any idea whether such a notarization through your outfit will be valid, because the average person hasn't the foggiest notion what is required for a valid notarization.

I'm also curious about the cost. Here in Texas, NPs are restricted to charging $6 for a notarization, unless there is travel involved. Your notariies aren't going to be traveling. Do you really propose to charge only $6 per notarization?

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 10:34am
Msg #368415

Re: Hugh.....

His fees are $14.99 per signature per his website. Correct me if I am wrong.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 10:46am
Msg #368421

Re: 2nd Thought.....

For Wisconsin the Venue is the place the Notarial Act took place. The Notarial Act is where the Notary and the Signers feet are when its being done. How do you do this when the Notary is in one place and the signer in another?

Reply by Victoria L. Miller on 1/13/11 10:56am
Msg #368423

Re: 3rd Thought.....

Chris isn't this just a product that you are hopeing to sell. I looked at your web site and I dirived from it that you are not really interested in the fraud this could cause, but just you want to sell your software$$$.
And I agree with the previous thought by Lisa, there is no way that your program can varify the truthfullness of the ID given.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 10:58am
Msg #368425

Re: 3rd Thought.....

And now you have a profile with Notary Rotary????? Are you a Notary? Do you carry E&O?

Reply by Victoria L. Miller on 1/13/11 1:07pm
Msg #368464

Re: 3rd Thought.....

Yes and Yes
Is there a problem with me getting in on conversation.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 1:10pm
Msg #368467

Re: LOL Victoria

Not you Sorry, I should have said who I was directing this to. Chris from NotaryNow has a Notary profile listing for CA.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:47am
Msg #368444

Re: 3rd Thought.....

Victoria,

Fraud prevention is our number one goal, but obviously we want people to use our system to notarize. I do not think that people who want to commit fraud would choose to go through our system and be video recorded committing the fraud.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:44am
Msg #368443

Re: 2nd Thought.....

LisaWI,

I can't comment on WI law, but my best answer to this is that this is a state by state basis and we do not currently have notaries in the state of Wisconsin.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 11:53am
Msg #368447

Chris: What states do you have notaries in?

Your site does not make it clear that a Texan, for instance, cannot receive a notarization from one of your notary staff.

If we knew what states you had notaries in, or if your website said so, it would be helpful.

We are all interested which states allow web cams to be personal appearance.

Thanks, again.

Reply by A S Johnson on 1/13/11 11:55am
Msg #368450

Re: Chris: What states do you have notaries in?

Seems to me, this a sales pitch for his sofeware.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:23am
Msg #368435

HisHughness,

Great questions. First, we always think a notary should be involved in a signing, so this is something that should not be a machines replacing people scenario. I think that if we can make notarization easier and more secure, we can and should promote more notarization on documents and more notary publics in general because it is good for all parties involved. If we are successful, we will be hiring many notaries.

Second, I think this is a problem with any notarization. Some of the employees here worked with lenders who threw out notarizations all the time for not matching some kind of requirement (not using this system, this was before). We want to be transparent, and help consumers as much as possible without trying to interpret their documents for them and overstepping our bounds. You can expect us to be updating the site at a minimum weekly with some of this feedback. All of our notarizations are valid, but obviously individual county clerks may have different requirements that can be tough for us to know. If you have and ideas or examples of how to walk that line between helping a consumer understand whether a notary is the right choice, let me know.

Regarding the cost issue, right now I think mobile notaries need to charge a lot because they have missed appointments, travel time, people who don't pay, ect. Taking away some of those inefficiencies, we hope to reduce the cost for consumers and allow more stable income for notaries.

-Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by Russell Hebard on 1/13/11 12:55pm
Msg #368460

I saw a NotaryNow ad on Craigslist under the jobs heading - both I and my wife have been job-hunting for a very long time. I must admit, originally I was very intrigued. Working from home sounds too good to be true. And now it seems as if it is. After contacting the New Jersey Division of Commercial Recording, which governs Notaries Public in the State of NJ, I asked them, was notarization by webcam legal? Guess what? It's not. And that answer, as you already know, came directly from the State. (And my local County Clerk).

Chris, if you can contact someone in the government of the State of NJ and prove to me that this is legal here in NJ, I'll apply to that ad. Until you do that, I wouldn't touch this with
a 39 1/2 foot pole! New Jersey has a motivating way of keeping its notaries honest - unlimited financial liability. If a notary public in NJ is found liable, they can be sued for any amount of money - unlimited. And no amount of insurance is going to cover the notary for a criminal act. And ignorance of the law is no defense.

New Jersey, and other states, have security features on their driver's licenses that can be checked with a UV light before accepting the id as valid. How do you check for those security features over a webcam? I do that in person every time.

I invite anyone to correct me on any of these points if they find me incorrect. From what I have researched and found out so far, what I have stated above is true.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 1:13pm
Msg #368471

Thank you, Russell. NJ. That helps. n/m

Reply by FGX/NJ on 1/13/11 2:36pm
Msg #368499

Re: Thank you, Russell. NJ. That helps.

The Notary Div. has referred this his matter to the A/G for possible prosecution.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 10:59am
Msg #368426

More questions, please, Chris

Chris, Thank you for coming to a forum where this can be discussed clearly enough to get an understanding of it.

1-Under what California law do you find your web cam experience is the same as personal appearance?

2-What state allows a web cam to serve as personally appear?

3-We can get into this later; many of us on this site have electronic seals, websites, video cams and secure technology. However, the law does not yet provide for this type of technology to be used as you have undertaken. We're pretty savvy folks, believe it or not. If there was a legal dime to be made in this venue, many of us would be all over it.

4- I see the concept differently,but ok.

Questions:

5-How to you handle venue? What venue is the notarization taking place? Where the notary is? Or, where the client is? Please cite the law that gives wiggle room for a notary and a signer to be in two different counties/states.


6-The NotaryNow site does not meet the needs of a Texas citizen who needs notarization; will you be refusing Texas notarizations?

A partial response from the Texas SoS this morning:

Performing a notarization without the signer personally appearing before the notary at the time of the notarization is a Prohibited Act. It is specifically cited as good cause for taking disciplinary action against your notary commission. Tex. Gov’t Code Ann. § 406.009; 1 Tex. Admin. Code § 87.11(a)(16). Appearance by webcam or video conference is not personal appearance. Personal appearance means physically appearing in the presence of the notary.

Again, thank you for your response and involvement on this site.

Reply by Stoli on 1/13/11 11:02am
Msg #368429

How do you thumbprint the signer, Chris? n/m

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 11:39am
Msg #368440

Re: It Seems to Me

that if this was conceivable, that lenders, title companies, other entities that require a Notary and even the Clerk of Courts for a said town/city would of jumped on this a long time ago.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 11:43am
Msg #368442

Exactly. n/m

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:55am
Msg #368449

Re: How do you thumbprint the signer, Chris?

We don't notarize from states that require thumbprints.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/13/11 6:33pm
Msg #368548

Re: How do you thumbprint the signer, Chris?

Chris, they why are you trying to market in California?

Reply by A S Johnson on 1/13/11 11:51am
Msg #368446

Re: More questions, please, Chris

Thank you. Brenda.
I'm glad you have made the TX SOS aware.
Again I sugest that ALL contact thier State elected law makers about this. Ask them to contact the TX SOS. I sure that the Notary folks, whose office, in a building away from the SOS office in the Capitol building, are now knowlegeable of this, but the SOS is generally out of the Notary working loop.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 11:54am
Msg #368448

Re: More questions, please, Chris

Brenda,

Happy to help.

1) We don't have any notaries from CA
2) Every state is different, and unfortunately I'm not willing to interpret state law, consult your secretary of state to get an answer (I understand this is a little evasive, but I think you'll understand)
3) I agree you are savvy which is one of the reasons I am here to get savvy feedback.
5) We believe the venue is where the notary is, and I honestly do not think that most states specifically addresses this concept because it is so new.
6) We do not conduct texas notarizations

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/13/11 11:42am
Msg #368441

How does the notary verify "free act" of signer

I remember when working on the NNA Notary Public Code of Professional Responsibility that the video conference issue came up. Personal appearance as I see it is, "reach out and touch someone"; i.e., caselaw still out there that the notary seven feet away "on the opposite side of an open door [spouse signer claimed too ill to leave the bedroom] telling the notary you're signing the document now doesn't qualify." One of the Judge's question: How did the notary know the woman wasn't being forced to sign? The problem I and other drafting members see is:

The notary must verify it is the signer's "free act" without undue influence or pressure. The unanswered question: "How do you know there isn't someone with a gun pointed at the signer underneath the desk forcing him to sign?"

Curious as to what liability protection you give your notaries if off-camera undue influence is discovered after-the-fact. Granted, in states where personal appearance is legally defined as "via video conference" or webcam this isn't an issue.

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 12:20pm
Msg #368455

Re: How does the notary verify "free act" of signer

Bobbi,

I just answered most of this on a previous post so I'll just copy it here.

"We actually get the gun question often. My best answer is that in that particular case 1) even if we could see the person with the gun, we would complete the notarization because it wouldn't be worth the person getting killed over (then we would call the police) 2) there is a risk for every notary that there is some kind of duress (physical or otherwise) that cannot be seen (so someone in the car, or the next room with a gun, in this example). 3) I cannot imagine a situation in which the signer who was signing a contract (say, title to a car) under threat of a gun would then expect to actually be held to the contract, regardless of whether the contract was notarized.

Obviously, it is important that the notary take reasonable steps to ensure a signer is not under duress. Our notaries have all signers state that they are signing of their own free will and every notary has to check that the person is not under duress (in their mandatory checklist built into the software)."

Its the final two things that we tried to go above and beyond on, the signer actually stating that they are signing of their own free will and the notary having to click off on a recorded checklist that the signer is not under duress. It may not do much in the gun scenario, but we think making the person say this works well for lesser duress issues, such as pressure from a family member.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by S Peterson on 1/13/11 12:26pm
Msg #368456

I would want to touch the ID to make sure it's not fake. Too

many times I have been handed a fake ID. I also have a device to check the ID for holograms.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/13/11 12:30pm
Msg #368457

I think you need to re-read this post and correct it.

"We actually get the gun question often. My best answer is that in that particular case 1) even if we could see the person with the gun, we would complete the notarization because it wouldn't be worth the person getting killed over (then we would call the police)"


It says you "would" complete the notarization.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/13/11 12:32pm
Msg #368458

The above post is directed at NotaryNow. sorry n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 1:07pm
Msg #368465

"would" is the best case for the person.

They would think of the person's safety first. Later the fraud can be sorted out.

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 1:13pm
Msg #368470

Re: "would" is the best case for the person.

This I actually agree with. It wouldnt be any different if we were called to perform the notarization and the person signing the document all of the sudden had a gun put to their head by someone demanding the document be signed. I would do the Notarization.

Although, they would probably kill both of us after the fact

Reply by NotaryNow on 1/13/11 1:50pm
Msg #368493

Re: I think you need to re-read this post and correct it.

Right, in compliance with the NNA's best practices. Would you refuse to notarize with someone with a gun standing there? We would of course call the police though.

Chris
NotaryNow.com

Reply by FGX/NJ on 1/13/11 12:59pm
Msg #368462

Re: ADVISE FOR CHRIS

Hire the best lawyers you can afford if you think personal appearance means an electronic image in the State of New Jersey.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/13/11 4:10pm
Msg #368525

Re: How does the notary verify "free act" of signer

That sounds like a cop-out answer to me. If the notary was in the same room, sure they would likely complete the assignment for their safety, but then they'd go call the police, as I think you even mentioned somewhere. The problem with your method is that your notaries would most likely never even know that this was going on, since it would be off-camera. And if they have a gun pointed at them, they will give your "notaries" any answer they want. I just don't see how your list of questions can overcome the duress issue. I don't see any real effective substitute for physical presence.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/13/11 12:58pm
Msg #368461

Still unanswered questions here, Chris

As Brenda pointed out earlier, the NASS has published E-Notarization Standards which conflict with your M/O.

The Standards are here (Brenda-your link didn't work for me?)
http://tinyurl.com/4g9t6gg

In the Definitions, the Standards state:

"10. “Physical appearance” and “appears before the notary” mean that the principal and the notary public are physically close enough to see, hear, communicate with, and give documents to each other without reliance on electronic devices such as telephones, computers, video cameras or facsimile machines."

There is an additional note at the top of Page 3:

"Under no circumstance shall a notary public base identification merely upon familiarity with a signer's electronic signature or an electronic verification process that authenticates the signer's electronic signature when the signer is not in the physical presence of the notary public."

I'd like to add a few more questions to the above, rather critical question.

1. Has NotaryNowdotcom actually been implemented & used yet by anyone?
2. If so, in what venue(s) has it been used?
3. A bit off topic, but can you provide any backup to the claim that notary fraud has cost however many millions you claimed, eliminating any in-office banking/investment 'robo-signer' cases from the mix?

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 1:11pm
Msg #368468

Renee', 1. Sure they have!

There are testimonials on the website: NotaryNow has saved me a ton of time that used to be spent travelling and finding notaries. - Danny Abdo




Thanks for fixing the link...as you might guess, I copied and pasted yours.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/13/11 1:14pm
Msg #368472

Following states are 'covered' per numbers listing:

All Counties We Offer Mobile Notary Service to:
• California
• Florida
• Illinois
• Michigan
• National
• New Jersey
• New York
• North Carolina
• Ohio
• Pennsylvania
• Texas
• Virginia

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/13/11 1:17pm
Msg #368473

National is in there, too.

Good grief.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/13/11 1:44pm
Msg #368490

Re: National is in there, too.

That must be one of PBO's 57 states.....

Reply by LisaWI on 1/13/11 1:21pm
Msg #368480

Re: Chris

In case you havent figured it out yet. Not only is this board filled with members who are concerned about us on this board and other Notaries, but we are also very concerned about Consumers and the liability they may face with this.

We take a lot of pride in protecting them and this situation is no different. Half of the Consumers I come into contact with have no clue as to Notarial procedure or even if laws exist for Notaries. You state on your website (to Consumers) that this is legal and I have yet to see you prove this.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/13/11 1:18pm
Msg #368476

It makes me utterly sick to read this

Chris -

You are an absolute unequivocable idiot. Personal appearance means that the client must be in arm's length, in the physical presence of the notary. There is absolutely no exception. What you are doing is completely illegal and I assure you that I will do absolutely everything within my power to make sure that your website is shut down and that you and your notaries on staff are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/13/11 1:48pm
Msg #368492

This will not fly in NY

"The court again wishes to express its condemnation of the acts of notaries taking acknowledgments or affidavits without the presence of the party whose acknowledgment is taken for the affiant, and that it will treat serious professional misconduct the act of any notary thus violating his official duty." (Matter of Napolis, 169 App. Div. 469,472).

Actual, personal appearance is required in NY - any NY notary taking part in this would at the very least be risking his/her commission.

Reply by Victoria L. Miller on 1/13/11 2:16pm
Msg #368497

At the end of the day Chris

I have been following this thread ALL DAY LONG and I hope you got the message that this program is not only enabling illegal acts for notaries but that your program just won't work. I think you need to get a clue and stop trying to convince very knowledgable people that your program would not break any laws.
I think you need to go back to designing app's for phones and computer games, and stay away from legitament business. JMO. I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

Reply by aries/CA on 1/13/11 5:00pm
Msg #368535

I am with you Victoria

I hope Chris got the point from everyone. I think he is in the wrong forum.