Posted by Calnotary on 1/28/11 2:06pm
Msg #370373

This a first for me, can we do in CA

In a notary acknowledgment : John Smith and Jane Smith F/K/A Jane Jones? Thanks, I am typing from
my iphone and can't research elsewhere at this moment, thanks all!

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 2:21pm
Msg #370378

any supporting ID?

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 2:25pm
Msg #370381

Only notarize the signature as it appears on the ID n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 1/28/11 2:40pm
Msg #370384

Just for the sake of argument ...

What if she has ID as Smith (ex: her DL) and as Jones (ex: her passport in her maiden name)? However, if she had no ID as FKA Jones, then Calnotary needs to cross that off the preprinted ack. The issue is: can one person have more than one name at the same time? (I dunno, I've never run across this). But if so, the person needs to show valid ID in all names and sign in those names if all sigs are to be notarized. (Isn't this what AKA affidavits are for?)

Reply by Calnotary on 1/28/11 2:31pm
Msg #370382

So what you are saying is that in my notary block it should be only Jane Smith, but NOT the
F/K/A Jane Jones?

What about if she has ID for both names? Her now married name and her maiden name

Reply by GWest on 1/28/11 2:48pm
Msg #370385

Had encountered this a couple of years ago and I asked the SOS and NNA their opinion. I no longer have a copy of the email from the SOS but I remember they agreed with the response I received from the NNA, which was:
"According to California law you cannot certify the capacity of a signer – the only name you can put on the notarial certificate is the name on her identification - Jane Doe. If you were to write ‘Jane Doe, formerly known as Jane Deer’ you would be certifying her capacity and this is not allowed by a Notary in California. (Civil Code, Section 1189 [2][c])"

Reply by GWest on 1/28/11 2:55pm
Msg #370389

I my case the borrower did have a DL with her current name and also the previous/cancelled ID with the f/k/a name on it, which I did advise the SOS and NNA when I asked, since she did have proof of her former name.

Reply by GWest on 1/28/11 3:17pm
Msg #370393

I found the SOS response to the same question, wherein I stated in the email that I did not include the f/k/a, and wanted clarification from them that I acted correctly and they stated:
"Yes, you acted correctly. You can only rely on the "most current identification provided" as Jane Smith."

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:11pm
Msg #370408

WEST - The old ID is no longer valid.

I my case the borrower did have a DL with her current name and also the previous/cancelled ID with the f/k/a name on it, which I did advise the SOS and NNA when I asked, since she did have proof of her former name.

Reply by GWest on 1/28/11 4:54pm
Msg #370425

Re: WEST - The old ID is no longer valid.

The point I was making is that in the email from the the SOS, they stated that the name on her "most current license" is the name to be used. The cancelled license with the same license number was proof of the former name. In CA, when a new license is issued the old one is returned to you with a hole punched in it. As someone else stated, it is very easy in CA to have a more than one license with different names. You could go into DMV and stated that you lost your old DL and will be issued a new one. I personally have had three licenses with different names, all current, one with my first married name, 2nd one as I took back my maiden name when divorced, and a 3rd when I got remarried. I was never asked for my old license when I went into get a new one with my new name.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 2:50pm
Msg #370387

I see a lot of different scenarios but one last thing is the AFF "preprinted by TC"?

I've had this happen before and it was extremely differcult to resolve because SS and TC all had different answers and none of them seemed correct to me. Just want to be sure before I answer.

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:13pm
Msg #370409

James, you are accountable to the SOS, not title or SS. n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 4:42pm
Msg #370422

Well my sister I was at first reluctant to post this but,....less then 03% of the violations for notary errors are prosecuted ( atty gen got more important thing to work on) and if nobody complains it is less then that.

So I am accountable to myself, my training, and doing what is right by the tools given me. Example, if I call the SOS and nobody wants to give me an answer what am I suppose to do? NNA taught me this (you don't like that), Notrot members taught me this (we don't all agree), and my gut feeling says do this.....then baring interference from a supreme being, I'm doing what I think is correct. Now, if what I did was incorrect and I don't get the correct answer from the people I've asked for guidance I've showed due diligence.

You were not in court to help me celebrate the last victory I had when everyone else sent me comments like "just do what they say and quit being differcult". Personal satisfaction lives in me. I can deal with it.

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 5:04pm
Msg #370427

James - You were not in court.... Did I miss something? n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 5:12pm
Msg #370428

Did I miss something? yes the S.O. S wasn't there either

Please read the entire post for understanding..I'm answering your accountability question.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/11 6:21pm
Msg #370438

Re: This a first for me, can we do in CA

You use the current ID.... and you only write the name of the person appearing before you (as it is on the ID). To me, FKA should not be included since that is NOT the person's current name on their ID.

Reply by Calnotary on 1/28/11 3:10pm
Msg #370390

Ok, I spent half an hour on the phone with the SOS, and I think their understanding is this:
**You notarize who ever is in front of you with valid ID,
If the person has ID with maiden name you can still legally notarize because they presented valid ID**

However how can one person have 2 different IDs with different names?

I asked if F/K/A was capacity she didn't know, that's a legal question she said.

Thanks Katri for your IM

Reply by Dawn Neuhalfen on 1/28/11 3:30pm
Msg #370396

Not sure if this will help but in Kansas

and on the Mortgage (Deed of Trust for other states), if she had originally taken title as Jane Deer and then got married and was now Jane Doe, and you had supporting evidence that this was the case, such as a marriage license or subsequent ID, you could notarize "Jane Doe f/k/a Jane Deer" and that is how the borrower would be listed on the first page of the Mortgage as well.

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:14pm
Msg #370411

Dawn, California is very specific, and that isn't allowed. n/m

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:19pm
Msg #370413

Dawn, I should have been more specific...

On a California acknowledgment, we are only allowed to notarize the signature of the person before us, and the 'person' may sign as the name appears, BUT we are only allowed to notarize the signature, not the capacity. In other words, we can include, "aka, fna, nka" on our certificate.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/28/11 4:38pm
Msg #370420

I think you mean "can't include" - just to be clear ;>) n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/28/11 3:37pm
Msg #370397

Since the DMV doesn't retrieve old DLs or IDs when you get a new one, it is possible to have two different ones that aren't expired. The classic example would be if someone changed their name and got a new one and it hasn't yet been long enough ago for the old one to expire. Or it could still be within the 5 year limit.

My first impression, too, was that "F/K/A" could be interpreted as a capacity. Even though it seems that you have proof that it's correct, our law specifically prohibits it. When I've run into this in the past, I had the borrower sign with the full F/K/A signature (i.e. both names) but only put the name on the current ID in the certificate. I had to do this a number of times for one client (R.I.P...) I used to do lots of work for and I'm sure I would have heard if there were any problems with anything recording. That was during the refi-mania days, though, all for the same lender, and they didn't care.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 3:54pm
Msg #370403

you hit the nail on the head JanetK, THE key is "same lender". That is where I was going because a new lender would/might have a different process. Bottom line, could it be done, yes....under certain circumstances. Should she do it, No...leave it to title.

I n my situation is was OLD DEED one name....then placed in trust, different name...then refi. Problem was old deed was never corrected to reflect the new name when placed in trust. So refi had old name.....I used the AKA AFF to facilitate that loan. Not the same but without having all the details, close.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/28/11 4:04pm
Msg #370406

To hopefully further clarify the waters on this a bit for anyone new who is reading this, I see two different issues here.

The OP was asking about what should go in the notary certificate. In CA, we should only put the name on the current ID and leave off anything to do with an FKA name.

A totally separate issue is what will be acceptable to the lender. That's where the name affidavit comes into play. I just want to be clear that the Name Affidavit (or which ever of the many variations may be in the lender package) has no impact whatsoever on the decision about what goes into the notary certificate.

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:16pm
Msg #370412

Janet, I believe you are correct. Only one name on the cert n/m

Reply by Stoli on 1/28/11 4:07pm
Msg #370407

I'm so happy to see your reponse to Calnotary posted; this issue comes up far to often for my taste. I swear to the sun, moon, stars and all that is holy, I want to complete the signings, but this identification issue repeats frequently on signings; two in one day, in fact.

The first: Documents were drawn in the name of Cynthia Doe. Her driver license was in the name of 'Cindy Doe'. Absent ANY document with the name Cynthia, I didn't close the loan. She couldn't even produce a utility bill, checking account..... nothing.

Second: Documents were drawn as 'Gerald Doe'. Driver license was in the name of 'Jerry Doe'. I was just teasing with the client as I filled out my journal and playfully jousted, "How do you happen to have ID in the name of Jerry instead of Gerald?" His response? "I had my name changed legally, but my loan is VA, and I was in the military as Gerald." Great! Now he's told me that he is, legally, NOT Gerald.

I called it in, and of course it was a 'no sign'. The signing was at the lender's office, and the LO agreed to shred the documents. He didn't. He had an other notary sign the documents, and they were received back at title the following morning.

I have a personal issue signing under penalty of perjury if the borrower can't produce identification as the loan documents are presented.

We got into the banter of notarizing a 'nick' name: is Robert and Bob the same person, etc. My position is that Billy Bob ain't William Robert, but to some it is.

I pointed out that some nick names are not so clear cut: My name is Katrina, but my nick name is Tina. Should a notary be expected to notarize a document drawn as 'Tina', though I can't produce ANYTHING with that name? I don't think so. In fact, I no so.

The bigger problem somes when the borrower/purchaser wants to sell the property and doesn't have ID in the name on the property...

As far as I know, the AKA Statement isn't on the Secretary of State's (SOS) list of approved forms of identification, and as a matter of fact, I believe the AKA list is generated from the credit report, and is not intended to be a form of identification. I personally don't care what's on the AKA statement, except did the borrower sign all of the name variations correctly and has the borrower ever used the names presented.

Well, I guess you know that someone was double P-I- $$ - $$ off, so I wrote to the SOS for a judgement call, and I believe the response was sent to you.

So, the long and the short of the matter is, in my opinion, we should only notarize ONE name on an acknowledgment, and that is the name as it appears on the identification presented. As you already know, we can't notarize 'capacity', and if we notarize 'aka' or 'fna', that's notarizing capacity---in my opinion.

The last problem signing, and probably my last signing EVER, the documents were drawn as "NFN Doe" ( No First Name). What the h-e- double fish hooks is a girl suppose to do with that?

I thought that loan officers were suppose to request a copy of the identification prior to drawing the loan documents, correct?

I know that I've lost a client, but I still have my commission and haven't had a claim against my insurance----yet.

I am anxious to know what name was on the ID and what name was on the docs.

I hope Calnotary lets us know how she resolved this issue.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/28/11 4:54pm
Msg #370424

I saw one recently that to me illustrated a likely origination of the problem. For a purchase signing, the docs were drawn as "Mike" but DL said "Michael". In this case, there was no formerly recorded title that needed to be matched so I looked at the 1003 and sure enough, the LO had written "Mike" - and everything followed from there. (That's probably how he introduced himself.) In this instance, I decided to not hold up a purchase for this difference (and he was also able to show me enough for me to feel comfortable with proceeding), but we did have a "little chat" about it. With different names, it very well may have ended differently (like with Tina and Katrina, for example).

If the LO had simply checked the ID - or even asked the guy how he wanted to take title when taking the loan app, this problem would have been avoided. But once that information is recorded, it starts a whole daisy chain of potential notary challenges that no one wants to have to deal with straightening out.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 5:01pm
Msg #370426

I personally don't think the LO EVER verifies the ID or the names on them. It would be nice but.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/11 6:10pm
Msg #370435

To me, the simple answer is... NO. You only put the name on the certificate as it matches the ID...since that's the person appearing before you.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 1/28/11 6:28pm
Msg #370441

<<To me, the simple answer is... NO. You only put the name on the certificate as it matches the ID...since that's the person appearing before you. >>

But that's not the OP's point. The borrower ostensibly has two valid IDs in two different names, both of which are on the preprinted acknowledgment. So, if she signed both names, why can't Calnotary ack both sigs?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/11 6:32pm
Msg #370443

Because only one person is appearing, not two. I don't see how it is possible to have two valid forms of ID with different names. TO me, that's a red flag.

Preprinted words mean nothing on the notary certificate --- the notary certificate is the notary's responsibility. If somebody printed the wrong names on there, I will correct it.

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 6:58pm
Msg #370450

Hi Marian.....ever hear of "witness protection" ? It is possible. I signed the SAME police officer every month for three months and he sworn it was his primary residence.. I had BIG PROBLEMS with that, you wouldn't believe the answer I was given when I brought it up to the "powers that be".

Sorry for getting away but YES you, SAME person, can have lots of different valid ID's IMO

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/28/11 8:34pm
Msg #370469

Well if it is a case of witness protection, then wouldn't it be a really stupid idea to put BOTH names on the same document?

Reply by James Dawson on 1/28/11 8:53pm
Msg #370474

In this day and age, anything is possible. Remember, the ex-figher George Forman? Well he named all four of his sons George.........ROFLMAO