Posted by DBFL on 1/20/11 11:41am
Msg #369343

Who are the SAs signing these docs?

I am incredulous! Received the docs from a SS I have not worked with before, but they have been professional and easy to work with so far. Get the docs today and WOW, the directions floored me. Here are some examples:
- At the front of the package, an entire page with huge font printing states that all signatures must be dated, even if it does not state “date” under the signature line. Then an entire page with huge font printing before the TIL stating that the form must be signed AND DATED. Huh? I was under the impression the TIL was always dated, but regardless, if all the signatures in the package are being dated, why does that have to be pointed out again?
- Under return instructions: Regardless of the shipping company, use THEIR envelope & drop in the right box! If they contain legal paper, DO NOT SHOVE them into a letter sized envelope. Obvious I would think.
-Page 1 of the 1003 must be signed, no exceptions. When did it not need to be signed?
- Another entire page later in the pkg with huge printing pointing out that BO must sign page and it must be notarized. The doc is the Occupancy Statement, which I believe is always signed and notarized, but no matter, the page has an obvious place for the BO signature with his name listed beneath and an obvious notary section. Who would miss getting either of these things completed?

I do not think this is a reflection on the SS, but it obviously is a reflection on the some of those that are competing for our business and the state the industry is in. Sad and scary IMO.

Reply by RickG/CA on 1/20/11 11:53am
Msg #369345

Sorry, "I'm Just A Notary" n/m

Reply by Jose Gutierrez on 1/20/11 12:01pm
Msg #369346

They are a great SS. I sent you a PM.

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:30pm
Msg #369443

Thank you Jose! You are a quality Notary and we trust your work!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/20/11 12:17pm
Msg #369349

"-Page 1 of the 1003 must be signed, no exceptions. When did it not need to be signed?"


When the borrower is not applying for joint credit...

I do a lot of single borrowers, and I see a lot of instructions that say they must sign the top of the 1003. It's ridiculous, because the instructions clearly state otherwise. I never have non-joint borrowers sign this, and I make sure they understand why. It's never been an issue, despite the huge, 40 pt font directions.

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:45pm
Msg #369448

I agree that this too is ridiculous. However, it is not our call to decide what the borrowers are to sign/not to sign. If they don't agree, have them take it up with the appropriate party while at settlement.
I have certain title companies/lenders that say don't sign when there is only one borrower but I also have certain clients that say it MUST be signed even if only one borrower. I agree, the wording says for "joint credit." However, if the client insists, you do what the client wants. Apparently their attorneys interpret the wording differently. If that's how they interpret it, who am I to argue?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/20/11 7:01pm
Msg #369464

Well, I never force a borrower to sign like that. I will pass along the request... but every single time, they can plainly read that that is to be signed by individuals applying for joint credit. It simply doesn't apply to a single borrower. At that point, I ask them to attach a sticky note writing why they don't want to sign... and they sign that. That way, they're aware that I did my job.... but I never, ever encourage nor force somebody to sign something they don't want to.

If I were a single borrower myself, I would not sign that top of the 1003 --- no matter what the bank said.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/20/11 12:46pm
Msg #369354

"I do not think this is a reflection on the SS..."

I have to disagree. I think it IS a reflection on the SS IMO. They are the one that has obviously hired "just a notary" types in the past. If they hired professionals (and that includes paying professional fees) they would not have to treat everyone that they hire as if they cannot chew gum and walk at the same time.

Yes there are bad SA, but just as there are good SS to work with there are also good SA.

Reply by DBFL on 1/20/11 4:22pm
Msg #369422

I believe them to be a reputable SS

I was stunned when I posted my first comments. Now I can chuckle and vow to “show them what kind of service I give”.

In regards to Moneyman’s comment, this SS did not offer a low-ball fee, has been very professional, has 4 & 5 stars ratings in SC, and does not appear to have payment issues. So, I think they have been snookered a time or two because a few people have told me these instructions are now standard for them, but they are a good SS to work for.

On a side note, did a closing at a Bank yesterday and the LO sat in. Afterward, she praised me on the “professional job I did”. She served as our witness and later asked me what I did when I did not have the docs witnessed. Not understanding why the question, I told her I always have them witnessed because we are a witness state (FL) and it is required by law. According to her, there is a SA who sometimes does signings at the bank and never has any of the docs witnessed. Not sure how that works? Then she commented “well what can you expect, she shows up in jeans, a sweater, and flip flops”.

Again, another WOW. I always dress professionally, even when going to people’s homes, but I always wear a suit or jacket and skirt in a conservative color when closing at a bank. I work in a beach area in FL and the dress code is relaxed, but no one’s definition of professional could be that attire!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/20/11 5:16pm
Msg #369436

Just a note Dania, for future reference

"I told her I always have them witnessed because we are a witness state (FL) and it is required by law"

In FL, with regard to real property transactions, witnesses are not required on mortgages (unless a lender requirement) - only on deeds of conveyance - Warranty Deed, QuitClaim Deed, etc. etc. - those deeds that convey the property....

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:46pm
Msg #369449

Re: I believe them to be a reputable SS

go with your instincts. We are great ;-)

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/21/11 2:42pm
Msg #369573

Re: I believe them to be a reputable SS

My apologies, since you did not mention the SS I put the comment in about paying professional fees because in a majority of cases it is the low ball SS companies that send a lot of hand holding instructions such as the ones you mentioned. I should have made that distinction in my reply.

Yes it is possible for good SS companies to get snookered it is unfortunate that they feel that they must now treat every SA as if they are unprofessional.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/20/11 2:19pm
Msg #369372

I agree - sometimes it makes you wonder...I did mention this to one company I worked with not so long ago - he stressed some points while on the phone with me - do this, don't do that..sign this way...initial that way...

When he was done all I could say was "It's sad you even have to go through that speech"...

The only thing I don't do is "all signatures must be dated, even if it does not state “date” under the signature line" - absent instruction such as you got, if the form only calls for a signature that's all they get - I don't have them date after all signatures unless the form says it.

Yep..makes ya go "hmmm"

Reply by Isabel/CA on 1/20/11 3:39pm
Msg #369406

I agree Linda. I do not have all signatures dated. If there is a date line, they date it. If not, they don't. I've never had a problem with this.

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:51pm
Msg #369451

No offense to you at all. However, if the company that is paying you asks you to have all signatures dated, regardless if its printed under the line, it should be dated. There must be a reason that the instruction was given.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/20/11 2:24pm
Msg #369378

It really irritates me when I got those "you've got to be a moron NSA" instruction sheets.
IMO it's sad that they have to do that & a it's obviously there because there are those out there doing signings that shouldn't be in the first place. I'm too "mature" to be treated like a child.

Reply by starrgirl/ca on 1/20/11 3:34pm
Msg #369402

I used to not have a single borrower sign the top of the 1003 until I had to go back two different times for a signature. Now everyone signs unless I am directed otherwise.

Reply by Cari on 1/20/11 4:45pm
Msg #369428

Those are instructions for newbies...definitely for newbies. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/20/11 5:27pm
Msg #369441

Yes Raymond...:) n/m

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:26pm
Msg #369440

Being the owner, I am aware that this post is about my company. I am not upset by it at all. What I am upset about is the fact that I do have to include ridiculous instructions like that. We weren't always like that, it just grew that way over time. I am also a closer and understand how frustrating this industry can be. Especially with growing packages and lowering fees. I understand that people may feel that it is hand-holding and believe me, we wish we didnt have to do it.
What you have to understand is that we are a national company with many clients and hundreds and hundreds of closings monthly. We have different instructions for each of our companies and the one we are referecing with the dating, signing, etc. is a pain; not the company but the instructions we have to include, lol. There have just been too many times these things are missed. Even the best closers need a reminder sometimes. PERIOD. Ninety percent of our great closer's don't need those childish instructions. However, especially during end of month crunch time and we have to obtain a new closer in a really rural area. We'd rather make sure it's done the right the first time.
My argument is this: Everyone makes mistakes. We know that. However we as a SS CANT AFFORD IT. Especially in this indsutry. If Joe in PA misses simething, Jane in NY misses something, Tom in CA, and Sally in FL, etc. Yes, each of you have made ONE MISTAKE (all be it rare) but that is FOUR mistakes for Accountable Agents in the client's eyes. Not good.
Its all relative to how you look at it people. So just remember, NOT ALL SS's are bad ones. We dont mean to drone on and "hand-hold" but its the only way we can hold closers accountable for the work they do. I am disgusted by SS's that low ball fees and then on top of it don't even pay. I don't know how they can live with themselves. They give the good one's an extremely bad name. Any constructive criticism is welcome have a great night! - Anthony

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/20/11 5:29pm
Msg #369442

Please excuse the incorrect spellings of a few words. I have come to rely on Word too much and I should have tripple checked the long saga that I typed, lol.

Reply by Robert Williams on 1/20/11 6:30pm
Msg #369458

I've done closings with even more detailed "Instructions" and I don't mind at all. After all, it gives me a chuckle ( or a sigh ) to realize that there are notaries out there that need all these reminders. Had one a few weeks ago that had a separate page in front of every signature page saying "Borrower must sign the following page" sad that such reminders are needed, but understandable once you see what's out there doing closings... but it really is a waste of paper

Reply by DBFL on 1/20/11 8:28pm
Msg #369493

Apologies to all

Sorry guys, my original post was not to complain about the SS or the instructions included. My post was related to my dismay that the SS found the need to include those types of detailed instructions. I could care less about requiring the date on every signature. Not hard to do and who cares why they need it.

I never intend this to be a discussion on one company’s policies, as many have noted that lots of companies have very detailed instructions - that was not the point of the first post. I also did not take it personally that I was sent the instructions. I was commenting on the sad state of affairs that required this type of action on a SS's part.

I think Accountable Agents summoned it up nicely; they would not include them if they had not found they needed them. I had never thought about it as everyone needs reminders now and then. If that is what it takes to keep the good SS in business, then so be it. It will also teach me to keep my mouth shut! :-)

Reply by RJE/MI on 1/21/11 7:18am
Msg #369508

Re: Apologies to all

I found this to be a great post. When it first started I was thinking about how it irritated me. The time it takes to go through all those instructions just in case there was something buried in there that may actually be more than the typical "hand holding" instructions and the ink involved to print those instructions if I don't have the time to scan the package before printing. It's rare for me to have a package sent to me. But after reading Accountables side I will be more understanding. Although their explanation is common sense it was a good reminder and will allow me to be more tolerable to those kind of instructions. Although I can't say that it didn't make me want to defend the statement "especially during end of month crunch time and we have to obtain a new closer in a really rural area. We'd rather make sure it's done the right the first time." If you ever have one of those in my rural areas please call me. Me and my 22 years of experience will be sure to get it done right the first time for you. Hope to hear from you soon Accountable. I'm always looking for great companies like yours.

Reply by Accountable Agents, LLC on 1/23/11 1:01pm
Msg #369744

Re: Apologies to all

I'll have Sean from my office send you a sign-up email. We don't do all that much in Michigan but we do get a couple a month. ;-)

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/21/11 2:58pm
Msg #369576

Your explanation does help to put the instructions in perspective. Thank you for your contribution. I know that with me it is the huge font type and pages with the stop sign, etc. that I find irritating from some SS companies.

I have no issue with additional instructions, however, I think putting them on one page in either normal font or slightly larger is much more respectful. Just as in chat rooms all caps or huge font (which is another way without using all caps) is considered yelling. Reminders are fine, yelling at me is not; regardless of the person or company paying me. (that was not directed at you personally, just a general statement)