Posted by James Dawson on 1/18/11 4:20pm
Msg #369107

speaking of e-signatures how about this?

Stealing you seal (electronically) and using it to notarize another Document (electronically).


http://www.findmyid.com/clipclip1.htm

Reply by anotaryinva on 1/18/11 6:21pm
Msg #369120

Thanks James, I'm forwarding this article to our VA representatives.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 1/18/11 7:51pm
Msg #369141

Wow!! That's all I can say. I'm speechless.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/19/11 3:22am
Msg #369160

I had the same reaction... Wow!

Maybe it's time to return to the use of embossers - in addition to the stamp - although I wouldn't be thrilled about that.

Reply by PAW on 1/19/11 8:02am
Msg #369165

Re: I had the same reaction... Wow!

I've been doing that recently. After I sign and stamp, I place the embosser over them both, if possible, and squeeze. The seal and signature are still clearly legible, but when copied, they are both slightly distorted. (Typically, I only do it to recordable land title documents (e.g., Deeds and Mortgages/DOTs), all estate planning documents and any document that will be used overseas.)

Reply by Yvonne/NJ on 1/19/11 10:12am
Msg #369193

Re: I had the same reaction... Wow!

Paul- ? I was told way back when I started that putting my inked seal on a document and then also using my embosser was tantamount to notarizing a document twice. I believe that came from an NNA seminar. If memory serves me right. And they said notarizing the same document twice renderred the document illegal.
If that is not the case, I too will start using both on Mortgages and DOT's. Just how do you do it? Do you use your ink seal and then use the embosser in a different area, like right underneath it, which would make sense.

Reply by Laurie_OR on 1/19/11 10:55am
Msg #369202

On-line images of public records

I'm surprised that the public records that are placed on-line have such a good resolution level. Lowering the resolution would still make the document readable online, but when printing or using a copy/paste the image would distort or be blurred.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/19/11 2:58pm
Msg #369248

Wrong

In New Jersey you don't even technically need a seal. All that is required is that your commissioned name and the date your commission expires are printed, typed or stamped below your signature. There is nothing wrong with affixing your stamp under your signature and then affixing your embosser over your signature or in a blank white space.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/19/11 3:39pm
Msg #369257

I have never heard that. n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/19/11 7:14pm
Msg #369293

Re: I had the same reaction... Wow!

I've never heard this before. You're not notarizing a document twice by using both stamp and crimping seal; the notarization is the application of your signature, in addition to the stamp and/or crimping seal.

As far as notarizing the same document twice rendering the document illegal is concerned - notarizing it ONCE doesn't make it "legal"; all that does is attest to the identity of the signer. How can you possibly make a document "illegal" when you're not in a position to legalize it in the first place??

It IS possible for a notarization to render a document invalid in some cases - for instance, notarizing a will in NY may invalidate the will - but there's a huge gap between invalid and illegal...

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/19/11 3:00pm
Msg #369250

I have always, always, always used an embosser every

time I notarize, and I encourage my students to do the same.

If there is plenty of empty space for it to go in, I affix it there, but most of time it goes on top of my signature.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 1/19/11 7:34pm
Msg #369294

I always use embosser also.

Even though neither a stamp or embosser is required in my state, just for that reason. And I crimp it hard enough that it does photocopy enough to indicate it is there.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/19/11 9:09am
Msg #369174

cut/paste & forged isn't e-notarization or e-signing

The article seems to leave a few details out, as near as I can figure. In order for the fraudulent Deed to have been recorded (and it was recorded), the forged signatures would need to have been original/wet ink signatures.

Copies of those signatures were taken off the county's website (or so it was surmised), as well as a copy of the notary's seal. The signature copies could easily be used as templates for forging 'originals'. The notary's seal could have simply been cut/pasted (digitally) into the doc, then printed - easy to imagine a good printer making that seal almost indistinguishable from a stamped seal.

Though the article does reference two cuts and two pastes to forge a deed - I suspect that was just slightly tongue-in-cheek. Yes, a couple cuts/pastes - AND a couple forged wet-ink signatures.

The larger problem IMO isn't the county placing public records on-line. Florida is having a terrible time with these things (as the article points out), but they're certainly not unique in putting records on-line. Here in MI, we're not even required to USE a stamp/seal (eliminates one cut/paste for frauding) - and we're not faced with the same level of frauded deeds as FL. The problem - the thing that makes FL so unique - is that you have a large seasonal community (i.e. absent much of the time). Interestingly, the primary story the article focused on involved an empty house/absent homeowners.

I just didn't want to see this tied to something it doesn't appear to be, and invoking reactions that may not be warranted.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/19/11 2:39pm
Msg #369241

Right, Renee'

True E-Notarization has a method of security with a certain kind of code/hash mark, and not the smoking kind.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/19/11 2:46pm
Msg #369245

People don't understand. Electronic notarization is just

like a traditional notarization. The only difference is that the document does not exist in paper form. It only exists electronically. Instead of the person sigining with a pen, they are typing their name into the document IN THE NOTARY'S PRESENCE, and the notary is typing his/her name and affixing his/her electronic seal into the document IN THE NOTARY'S PRESENCE.

I use DocVerify.com for electronic notarization. I don't want to sound like I'm advertising, but this website makes the process so easy to understand. Simply upload a document and follow on-screen instructions. At the end, you have an electronic document that has been electronically notarized according to law, which has all the special security features, that can be sent on its way to the county clerk or to wherever else it is supposed to go.

The person still has to personally appear, you still check their ID, you still complete a normal journal entry, etc. Everything is the same except that the document is on your computer instead of on paper.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/19/11 11:59am
Msg #369220

More reason to use an embosser... can't be duplicated

Combine that with a system like California - where you have to have SOS authorization to have a seal made - and your system is foolproof. You can't scan and paste an embossed seal.