Posted by pat/WA on 7/4/11 11:22am
Msg #388536

Question

The signer states that he is married.
Then he completes all the documents as a single person. What is our legal and/or moral obligation?

Reply by jba/fl on 7/4/11 11:31am
Msg #388537

How do you know this? What leasds you to believe this? I'm not really understanding this.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/4/11 1:25pm
Msg #388539

I'm not sure you need to get all "legal and moral" about all this (assuming this is mortgage you're talking about). Simply report this to your hiring agency, either the SS or the TC. The TC needs to be alerted that he states he is married, yet the docs indicate he is single ... at least this would apply in CA, I should say. I don't know what WA laws are regarding this. But I have run across this several times, and the TCs involved were all very concerned that the deed be correctly vested when recorded.

Occasionally, it's an honest mistake. Occasionally, one spouse is trying to pull a fastie on the other ...

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/4/11 1:35pm
Msg #388542

<<<The signer states that he is married. Then he completes all the documents as a single person. What is our legal and/or moral obligation?>>>

Don't analyze...just notarize. If you believe you should inform the TC of this info, then do so...it can't hurt. Maybe they already know - maybe they don't know....nonetheless, alerting the TC is as far as you need to go. After that, it's on the TC as to what they do with the info.

Reply by LeeH/IN on 7/4/11 1:39pm
Msg #388543

Had a similar situation not long ago. Title said property was aquired when signer was single and title is held as a single person so he signs as a single person. On the Owner's Affidavit signer indicated he was married.

In my opinion this doesn't deal with the whole situation because in IN we have non-borrowing spouse docs that should be signed. Wife's name could be added to Title without becoming responsible for the Note. I figure if Title was notified it's up to them to work out the details with the borrower. We don't know what the circumstances are. Some married couples have separate financial dealings and don't want the spouse involved with the R.E.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/4/11 2:03pm
Msg #388544

As far as a notary, I’m there as an impartial witness of their signature. As a Signing Agent, I remind them that on some of the documents they sign they are swearing to the content as to being true facts.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 7/4/11 2:48pm
Msg #388546

Maybe he took possession as a single person

way back when and his wife is not on the title.

Look at the DOT and see if it states something like:

John H. Doe as his single and separate estate

Reply by Ireneky on 7/4/11 3:37pm
Msg #388547

OMG you don't know WA state law!!

Are you in a spousal state?? Call TC

Reply by Julie/MI on 7/4/11 3:50pm
Msg #388548

Re: OMG you don't know WA state law!!

So suppose this person is closing at a title company, not at his kitchen table by a remote closer. Do you think the title company is going to let this go?

The lien is not perfected without the spouses signature (in my state) and the bank is hiring the title company to get the lien perfected.

It's a no brainer, you need to tell title. Period. Make a notation in your records so it doesn't come back to bite you.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 7/4/11 5:03pm
Msg #388550

OMG Irene, if you're talking to me, I've listed below the WA

code that's pertinent. I believe this is what Pat has come up against and I would think the way he signed is perfectly lawful.

Or I think that's what Matlock would say if he was channeling through me.

2005 Washington Revised Code RCW 26.16.010: Separate property of husband.
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Property and pecuniary rights owned by the husband before marriage and that acquired by him afterwards by gift, bequest, devise or descent, with the rents, issues and profits thereof, shall not be subject to the debts or contracts of his wife, and he may manage, lease, sell, convey, encumber or devise by will such property without the wife joining in such management, alienation or encumbrance, as fully and to the same effect as though he were unmarried.

2005 Washington Revised Code RCW 26.16.020: Separate property of wife.
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The property and pecuniary rights of every married woman at the time of her marriage or afterwards acquired by gift, devise or inheritance, with the rents, issues and profits thereof, shall not be subject to the debts or contracts of her husband, and she may manage, lease, sell, convey, encumber or devise by will such property to the same extent and in the same manner that her husband can, property belonging to him.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/4/11 6:10pm
Msg #388551

Of course, all of this is conjecture as Pat has not

really defined what it is she is talking about. She was too vague IMO to be jumping all over each other.

Reply by Rani Sampson on 7/5/11 11:38am
Msg #388599

Wrong law

Pat asked a valid question. Signer tells her his status is one thing and then signs a document stating his status is something else.

A notary would be engaged in the unauthorized practice of law if she were to try to interpret community property law (a tiny part of which was cited by Mr. Johnson).

A notary is only responsible for knowing the laws and codes that apply to the notary's services, e.g. RCW 42.44.080 and WAC 380-30-020.

Reply by Shelly_FL on 7/4/11 9:08pm
Msg #388559

Notarizing any of those documents would make me a party to the fraud.

I had one about a month ago where the so called husband was in Afstanagan and she was signing as his POA, but she let it known that their divorce was finalized two weeks prior. The mortgage was being vested as married, so I immediately called title. After being put on hold for ten minutes while they investigated, the signing was haulted. Lucily I was paid full fee. I spent two hours driving round trip!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 7/5/11 12:11am
Msg #388566

Answer: Always tell the firm that hired you. Period. n/m

Reply by BossLadyMD on 7/5/11 9:12am
Msg #388583

In MD, a married guy was the only one on the note & deed

His wife was right there and didnt seem the least bit concerned. People do things for different reasons and it's none of my business. His deed did say his was married but his name was the only one on there. His perogative....JMHO

Reply by SharonMN on 7/5/11 10:15am
Msg #388585

If he states he is married and then signs an affidavit under oath that he is single. I wouldn't complete a jurat for the affidavit.

If it doesn't impact notarized docs, I'd just inform title of what I was told and ask how to proceed. If I couldn't reach title, I'd proceed with the docs I had and include a note informing them bwr states he is married.

Reply by SouthernOK on 7/5/11 10:29am
Msg #388587

I had one of these last month, divorced for medical benefits

Lady walks me into her kitchen and introduces her husband. I froze. She then tells me that they are not legally married because the VA took away his benefits, so now they are divorced but still "married in their hearts."

Husband gets all mad that she's telling me this story. I answered that she is named in docs as a single woman and then he chuckled that she is single when it comes to finances.

So maybe you were in a similar situation?