Posted by JanetK_CA on 8/28/12 3:05am
Msg #432197

Another thought about FindNotary -we're helping their SEO

I also got a reply from them asking me to send them the url - which, BTW, was just their website followed by "/search". Nothing individualized about it. I sent it and explained the simple steps to finding my listing, and said that if necessary, I would take legal action to getting it removed. I already received a response that they are deleting it, but it will take a couple of days. All well and good, but in the meantime, they've been very successful at getting a lot of traffic to their site, improving their rankings with various search engines and exposure for the webcam business they're promoting - exactly the opposite of what we want. I wouldn't be surprised if they're doing it on purpose.

I still think we should do whatever possible to bring this site to the attention of whatever authorities might have some influence. And I think we should focus heavily on the promotion of the online notarizations, as well as the unauthorized use of our info.

We created a fair amount of interest in the topic of online notarizations a while back with various notary authorities (e.g. SOS offices) in many states, to the point where many posted statements about online notarizations being illegal. Now, these guys are not only blatantly promoting that fraud, they've implicated an obviously large number of notaries in trying to establish some credibility. If they've poached databases from state officials, I think those same officials might want to be made aware of this.

And I'm not going to visit that site any more - unless I have a very, very good reason!

Reply by CinOH on 8/28/12 9:01am
Msg #432204

They've removed my listing without any hassle. Not sure why the told you it will take a couple of days. They may be hit with a large number of requests at this point or either they're trying to give you the runaround.

To get to your unique URL you have to click your name and then cut and paste that URL. If you just cut from the search result page you land on after entering your name and location then you'll get findnotary.com/search and not the actual URL to your listing there.

There is a lot more to SEO besides raw clicks. I personally will monitor their site periodically to make sure they do not put me back on there as they should never have done so to begin with. If they were bold enough to do it once whose to say they won't try it again?

Here in Ohio the SOS lists all notaries full information online at their website. It's a public record. I suspect it's the same in other states. Someone mentioned their state provides a zip download of the entire notary database. So, I don' t know if they've actually poached databases from state officials. States want people to have access to this information or they would not list it on the Internet. Why they're providing a downloadable zip of notaries in their state is beyond me. It's probably a way of staving off public information requests by providing a self service database and download of info for those who want it.

IMO I feel that our issue is really with the SOS's offices and the sites we list at for listing our addresses publicly. There is really no reason for them to display our addresses as part of our notary listings--name, email, phone is okay. Address is a no. We should have the right to limit who can see our addresses as most of us work from home. We can verbally give companies our address for shipping overnight packages, payment, etc. It does not need to be part of our profile. I think having a P.O. Box is a good idea.

I agree with them listing the name of notaries and our commission number and commission history so that people can verify our commission. However, I disagree with them listing our addresses and have told them so. I was told people have the right to that information. I disagree. They don't list the addresses for cosmetologists, doctors, or any other professional group that has to register with the state that I'm aware of.

I know the issues with Findnotary.com is about them listing people without permission and the illegal notarizations. The address issue is just a pet peeve of mine.

I'm not sure what the SOS can do to affect this website as they can't stop citizens from coming across it or using it. I suppose they could send them a cease and desist telling them not to provide notarizations in their state but I don't think they have a lot of teeth. I think they have to refer things to the Attorney General or law enforcement. At this point this is really an issue for the state Attorney Generals and/or some of the Federal watchdog groups who can actually shut these folks down across the board. The FBI has a Internet Crime Complaint Center (http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx). Here's a list of all the Attorney General's (http://www.naag.org/current-attorneys-general.php). The new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (http://www.consumerfinance.gov/).

This operation falls into the category of Cybercrime and Internet Fraud. Their online notarization arm claims to be a member of the BBB. If true then the BBB should also be made aware that their services are not legal and will yank their membership. The BBB can also be instrumental in raising public awareness that online notarizations are illegal and that documents notarized online are not valid.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/28/12 9:23am
Msg #432211

Cin, I'm meeting with the SOS in the next few weeks...

regarding notary reform issues, and will pass along the concern about use of addresses on his website.

The comparison with those holding professional licenses is not valid though; while they are accountable to a state board, they are not public officials with a state commission.

I will also ask that the Ohio Attorney General's ban on webcam notarizations be included on the SOS website.

Visit www.ohionotaries.org for valuable Ohio notary info.

Reply by CinOH on 8/28/12 11:26am
Msg #432229

Re: Cin, I'm meeting with the SOS in the next few weeks...

Thanks Roger. I hope the meeting is productive. I'll check your site for an update on the meeting.

I understand the distinction between us being commissioned public officials and the other groups I mentioned being licensed through various state boards. We are commissioned and are public officials. They are not. I get that.

The point I was trying to make is that like those other groups we have to register with the state. Which is good. However, we are the only group (to my knowledge) with our addresses listed online? Why? I don't see the purpose.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/28/12 9:27am
Msg #432214

I asked and was told the infomation came from the state. That was not true as the state does not include my phone number in their listing. They certainly don't include 2 phone numbers and a fax, nor does it include the business name of another in south Orlando.

Since they lie about this, they will lie about anything. That's the criminal element for you though. And, do I remember correctly, this is a former military man heading this operation? He was probably kicked out if so. Skewed values, morals, ethics for certain.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 8/28/12 7:10pm
Msg #432308

"And, do I remember correctly, this is a former military man heading this operation?"

No, that guy is the brains (and I use that term loosely) behind NotaryNow, which is the company pitching the remote notarizations and insisting that they are legal in all 50 states. Which we all know is simply not true - even in VA, where they are not meeting the ID requirements of the VA law.

FindNotary is probably just an affiliate - they probably get a cut of the fee for every sucker - oops, I mean customer - they manage to steer to the mother ship...

Reply by jba/fl on 8/28/12 8:32pm
Msg #432326

And that is who I am talking of - "the brains" as you say. n/m

Reply by A S Johnson on 8/28/12 9:28am
Msg #432215

The other day, after finding my listing, I call their number and left a message to remove my name.
I followed up by calling the Texas Sec of State, Notary division to make them aware of this site.
I now do NOT find any listing on thier site for several zip codes in the State of Texas. I can hope our Sec of State Notary people have taken a proactive responce.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/29/12 1:34am
Msg #432341

"To get to your unique URL you have to click your name and then cut and paste that URL."

That's exactly what I did, and it did not show a unique URL, just added "search" to the end. As much as I hated to go to that site again, I did just check and my listing has been removed.

Thanks for the info on the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center, and the other links, as well. That sounds like a good way to go. I think the thing that bothers me the most about this is the advertising on every page for the online notarization. I wouldn't want to be associated with that in any fashion whatsoever, but it goes way beyond that, like I imagine it does for most of you.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/28/12 11:03am
Msg #432227

I'm listed there - with an old mailing address and an old profile summary, info I haven't used in three years! Therefore, they couldn't have gotten my info from the CA SOS - the SOS does not have profile summaries, nor would it have a mailing address from 3 yeas ago. Don't know about other states but the CA SOS requires any address change to be submitted to them by registered mail within 30 days and there's a penalty for failure to do so.

Webcam notarizations could threaten national security so maybe we should steer warnings/complaints towards that perspective and contact the FBI or whatever that site is (IC something or other).

I believe notaries of every state should FLOOD their SOS/governor's offices with links to findnotary.com - not just for SOS/governor's offices to put a statement on their website but flood them (and keep flooding them) so they actually contact the offender and they (the SOS/governor's offices) pass along the info to the proper authorities to render cease and desist orders to findnotary.com

Findnotary.com won't go away until they are forced down and threatened with prison time.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 8/28/12 4:00pm
Msg #432287

They removed my listing and added another today

with a different residential address. I have demanded again that they remove this listing.
I have also reported it to the CA SOS and the IC3. I hope everyone else will do the same.