Posted by MaggieMae_CA on 8/7/12 11:58pm
Msg #429749

How many times do you have to say "No"?

Friday night I spent an hour and a half with a couple who had many problems. The husband is a disabled veteran with many, many problems. Within 10 minutes of my arrival he told me about his mental disabilities and the countless psychotropic drugs he is on. He informed me that he would not be taken advantage of by the lender and that he had a team of attorneys who would litigate on his behalf if the lender was going to take advantage of his mental condition.

To make a very long story as short as possible, this was a no sign (thank the good Lord up above). The loan officer was kept apprised of what was going on throughout the ordeal (I mean signing). When I left the borrower’s home I immediately called the loan officer again and told him that the borrower was threatening lawsuits and that the borrower was taking heavy medications and was not fit for duty.

When I went home I emailed status to the signing service explaining what happened. I also stated in my email that in the event the signing was rescheduled, do not call me because I would refused to sign this couple.

The following afternoon (Saturday), I received a phone call from the loan officer thanking me for my help and patience. Then, he asked me how much I wanted to go back out and meet with the borrowers to sign docs. I told the LO I would not meet with the borrower. The gentleman was taking strong medications, did not remember conversations and was threatening lawsuits. The loan officer said that he knew the borrower was "difficult," but had never met him but would talk to his boss to see if his boss would want to give the borrower a loan after what had transpired.

You would think that would have been the last of it, but it wasn’t. I received a call today from the signing service asking me to take a 7:30 p.m. signing in a suburb of San Diego. I asked for the name of the borrower and it was the couple from Friday night. I told the scheduler that H-E-double sticks would freeze over before I would sign loan docs with that borrower. I told her about the medications and lawsuit threats and that I wanted no part of any of it. She said she would notate our conversation and thanked me.

I’m sure she found someone else to meet with the borrower. All I know is it wasn’t going to be me. I've been a SA in CA since 2005. I feel sorry for this couple. I know that the man wants to lower his mortgage payment and that would be the best thing for him and his family, but he was not understanding what was being said by myself or the loan officer. His wife sat back and took a back seat to all of this. It wasn't until I packed my things up that she spoke up and said that they wanted to sign, all the while her husband was saying he didn't want to sign.

Reply by rolomia on 8/8/12 1:35am
Msg #429750

Thank you for taking a stand against verbal abuse & lawsuit threats. I, too, have encountered verbally-abusive, conspiracy-theorizing nut-jobs who think that they are so superior and important that a title company or lender is going to risk losing their multi-million-dollar business for the few peanut scraps that those horrible clients represent to said lenders. Talk about self-inflated egos.

What amazes me is that said clients were ever approved in the first place. I wish that lenders would use a client personality scale among other elements in the approval process. Then, maybe this nonsense would stop. But, the only thing that most of the lenders, title companies and signing services I encounter care about is profit. The client's verbal abuse and harrassment of the SA or LO doesn't matter one iota. Shameful & despicable.

Reply by Karla/OR on 8/8/12 1:45am
Msg #429751

I hope you were not referring specifically to the disabled veteran with mental issues that was noted in the first post. This family has some sad issues before them and I am not sure where they should go for assistance. We can't turn our backs on those that have fought for our freedom. They have as many rights as you and I do - maybe more. I've stepped back off my soapbox now.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/8/12 2:23am
Msg #429755

No need to wave the flag

This is not an issue of patriotism or "rights" or of anyone turning their backs on those who have fought for our freedom. I hope you don't approach your signings with that attitude, which, last I looked, was not a requirement of becoming a notary. This is an issue of a borrower who clearly does not understand the loan process nor how to assimilate the information before him without exhibiting inappropriate, threatening behavior. He's clearly unable to make responsible decisions for him and his wife- whether because of dementia, paranoia, the meds, etc. Maybe he was just having a bad day. The LO should have know all that about him, but, of course, all the LO wants is his commission and was probably hoping the notary would slam dunk the signing for him. This is a troublesome situation for the borrowers because maybe they are not getting the best loan for them, or not even getting a good loan. Mr. Alpha Male is obviously incapable of figuring this out and meek wife is not sticking her neck out. It's probably a done deal by now, thanks to the new notary, but too bad they couldn't have hired an attorney from the "team" he talked about or seen a senior citizen advocate to advise them .... somebody they could trust. Very sad.

Reply by rolomia on 8/8/12 2:27am
Msg #429756

Karla,

No! I was not referring specifically to the disabled veteran. But, 99% of the disabled veterans that I meet aren't mean, ugly and hateful toward people who are only trying to help them. And, to defend such behavior by claiming that it isn't within their control allows for and maybe even encourages such behavior. In the early to mid 90's, I volunteered with a church group that ministered to war veterans with PTSD issues at a Veteran's home. They were always nice toward us. Many of them were physically, mentally and psychologically disabled. Yet, they never once used said disabilities as an excuse or a crutch to mistreat others. By the way, if I ever encountered a person who claimed that they were unable to control their behavior or personality due to a mental disability, I would encourage them to seek help, immediately. Otherwise, they may suffer in tormented silence. As a side note, the veteran-in-question may be a nice person, in general. I only referenced the aforementioned post to clarify my own experience meeting people who are mean, abusive, intolerable, etc. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Reply by HisHughness on 8/8/12 9:00am
Msg #429767

Thanks for your sensitivity, Karla.

We ask a lot of our men and women in uniform, including that they kill for us. When they return to us damaged, we're not required to put ourselves at risk because of their problems, but at least we can show our appreciation by not speaking disparagingly of them.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/8/12 11:33am
Msg #429779

Re: Thanks for your sensitivity, Karla.

This is the wierdest thread. If the OP had left out "disabled veteran," we wouldn't be having this same conversation nor would we be sidetracked in our responses by all this flag-waving hoopla. Disabled is disabled and requires sensitivity and concern from all - notably the LO and the notary. His disabilities may not have anything to do with his military service. Showing appreciation for his service is one thing - - but how to deal with this poor guy and his wife is another, and no one seems to know or care how to get this done. The LO and SS just want the loan closed so they can move on.

BTW: When I know I'm signing a vet, I always thank them for their service to our country. Some act like they're heard that before but most act shocked that anyone cares. I also never charge military people for GNW. I have a son in the Air Force, and my husband is a war vet (tho I don't always thank him for his service! LOL).

Reply by HisHughness on 8/8/12 1:15pm
Msg #429797

Re: Thanks for your sensitivity, Karla.

***all this flag-waving hoopla.***

I don't recall waving any flags, with hoopla or otherwise, but if appreciating a veterna's service and showing some sensitivity because of that service is flag-waving hoopla, I'll gladly plead guilty. You need to cool your jets a bit, GG. Nobody's biting anybody else on the butt, or at least we wern't until your "flag-waving hoopla" characterization.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/8/12 3:31pm
Msg #429817

Re: Thanks for your sensitivity, Karla.

Well, sorrrrry, Sir H! But it appears to me that the reaction to the OP and the reactions to the reactions have all centered on how we should be kind to veterans, while nobody, as far as I can see, has addressed the elephant in the room - a notary who got blistered during the first attempt at signing by some ostensibly out of control guy with a wife as no help and then refused to go back despite requests from the LO and SS and then other notaries said rah rah stand your ground. What if anything is wrong with that picture?

Reply by Karla/OR on 8/8/12 2:50pm
Msg #429814

Re: Thanks for your sensitivity, Karla.

<<When I'm signing a vet, I thank them for their service. Some act like they're heard that before but most act shocked that anyone cares. I never charge military people for GNW. I have a son in the Air Force, and my husband is a war vet.>>

GOLDENGIRL, acknowledging military service is one of the best parts of this job, IMO. I stand in awe of these people because of their personal sacrifice and that of their family - I can see you feel the same way. Can't begin to imagine what it is like to do military service, other than I would have a H#$$ of a time getting through it! :O)

A BIG thank you to your husband, and particularly to your son, who is active duty at this time. Where is your son stationed at?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/8/12 1:47am
Msg #429752

Wow! Earth-shaking!

Well, not really, but I my building did move while I was reading this... [I just checked; it was a 4.4 just NE of Yorba Linda. Not quite an "e-ticket", but enough to get my attention. I'm probably a good 30 miles south of there, so just a little rumble here.]

Sorry for getting side-tracked -- and sorry you had to go through that ordeal. Those kinds of situations are draining enough without having to keep explaining it and saying NO over and over again. Good for you for sticking to your guns!! I wouldn't want anything to do with that situation, either! You're probably right, though, that they managed to find someone else. How sad...

Reply by CentralNY on 8/8/12 9:33am
Msg #429768

Re: Wow! Earth-shaking!

No where near as serious as your situation but I was asked to return to a senior for a signing in which she was a nightmare and I declined as I am sure it would be a repeat perfomance. Sometimes they have no idea the personalities and situations we encounter. I wasn't a good enough pyschologist for this one.