Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/5/12 12:27am
Msg #429384

Say "cheese"

Recently a hyper suspicious borrower took a picture of me as I was walking into the house. He wasn't obvious about it, but it was obvious he did it. He then proceeded to do the standard grilling: who are you, let me see notary ID, how do I know you're a notary, blah blah blah. He then said he was a victim of identity theft and was vigilant about everybody and everything. Anyway, I've been down that road plenty enough and pretty soon I had him calmed down and on board with the signing. Still, I was REALLY ticked about the picture. The job was from my bread and butter TC, otherwise I'm pretty sure I would have walked out as soon as I heard the camera phone click on the premise that if he's that uncomfortable with me and the whole at-home signing process, he should have made arrangements to sign the loan at the lender's or the TC. I mean what's he going to do with this picture? If his identity gets stolen again or more hits are made on his credit, is he going to turn my picture over the police as a possible suspect?

What is it with these people? Their escrow officer calls them, e-mails their docs to look over (SOP for this TC), tells them a notary will come to wherever they want to meet and whatever time they set. Then, I call and confirm the signing location and time they requested and then at the exact appointed minute that a real live notary was scheduled to come with their loan docs, in walks somebody else (me) who's clearly out to defraud them. WHAT AN INCREDIBLE COINCIDENCE!!

I'm getting too old for this.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/5/12 12:55am
Msg #429385

I've never had on quite that bad, but I've had plenty who have asked for my business card and proof that I'm a Notary. I'm never bothered by that. In fact, I carry copies of my commission and will gladly give them to the person if they ask, and give them the contact info to the Sec of State's office, as well as the Notary people at the county clerk's office, since that's where our oath and bond are filed, and they can verify my signature.

A few have asked to see my ID just to verify it against the name on my commission. I was okay with that. I could tell that they were just being cautious rather than overly paranoid.

I still think that we should be issued IDs by the state that had our commission information on it. I mean, (at least in CA) we have to have a passport photo taken to submit with our applications, right? Passport photos come in twos.... so why not require that we submit both... then use one for a Notary ID card? Honestly, if it meant a slight increase in the application fee for our commission to cover it, I'd pay for it. We already pay a fortune for the process, I'd pay a little more if I had an ID that I could use that didn't include some of the personal stuff found on my DL.

I think of it kind of like this... I may get pulled over by a man wearing a law enforcement uniform, wearing a badge and carrying a gun... but, especially if I'm alone, I'm still going to ask them to identify themselves and show me their credentials. It's not that I don't doubt they are who they say they are, I'm just being careful, because there have been plenty of stories.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/5/12 1:45am
Msg #429386

"I'd pay a little more if I had an ID that I could use that didn't include some of the personal stuff found 'on my DL"

Right. And I'd pay a little more for the photo, too, if I thought there was any chance I'd ever have to show it to anyone!

BTW, I think there IS a bit of difference with being pulled over on the highway and having someone walk into someone's home with their loan docs. On the freeway, it's a random occurrence, but for a loan signing, they KNOW someone is coming, and hopefully they've already spoken to that person.

I only remember being questioned about proving I'm a notary twice - by the same guy, quite a few years apart. The second time, I explained to him how difficult it is to get a notary stamp in CA, but I also think that I had a photocopy of my notary commission with me because of something I read here. I would never have thought of it on my own.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/5/12 1:55am
Msg #429387

Funny enough, I took my renewal exam 2 weeks ago and took my picture the night before at Rite-Aid. That photo was 100 times better than the one on my driver license that I had taken in June.

Reply by Frank/NC on 8/5/12 9:17am
Msg #429398

Don't want to play "Can you top this" but in addition to everything your borrower did, the couple I did a signing for about a year or so ago, just nonchalantly went out side and took a picture of my car and license plate. While signing the docs, they turned every piece of paper over to see if anything was on the other side and, yes, they read every word of every piece of paper. Of course, during this whole thing I just kept thinking to myself that if this wasn't a good customer I would have left a long time ago. Thank God not too many like these do we get. Persnally, I don't think it has to do as much with identity theft as it does with paranoid behavior.

Reply by ToniK on 8/5/12 10:19am
Msg #429402

I had something similar to me happen. The guy grilled me and wanted to see ID. I thought I had left my drivers license at home, actually it was in my bag in an small forgotten zip pocket. So I gave him my business card. He didnt like it. He wanted to see a photo id. So I had a govt issued ID card for entering govt buildings. He looked at it and then atttempted to write down the information from it which I then stopped him and took back my ID. He then asked for a drivers license and stated that he wanted to record my information in case his SS and financial information becomes susceptible to theft so he knows who to come after. I told him even if I had my drivers license (which I really did), he would not be able record any of my information from it. If his information was to be hacked it wouldnt be my fault and showing up at my door out of anger will do nothing but get your arrested. HE said he didnt want to sign because he didnt trust me. Oh ok, I packed up my stuff and left.Called Title and let them know the situation. They spoke to him and squared everything away and I told them to find another notary to go back out there.

The guy worked for the FBI and not even in a position of importance. I had told him I hold a DOD TS/SCI and used to work for the FBI and I understand how he feels. I even told him that there arent too many notaries who hold a security clearance and have worked in various govt agencies in the Intelligence field but he still didnt trust me. Oh well, the next notary guaranteed didnt hold nothing close to my credentials.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 8/5/12 11:42am
Msg #429409

Many years ago I had a Borrower tape record the entire closing. He didn't trust anyone. Claimed he was burned in the past. When we had to call the LO to ask a question, I quickly advised the LO the Borrower was recording the proceedings.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 8/5/12 12:12pm
Msg #429410

Sneaky pic? Gak! One reason I always talked to the BO

to confirm, was to break the ice, establish the best level of rapport possible, and let them know when they see the teensy tiny car pull up, it's just me, there, to give them the best possible service to complete their business.

Whether it was joking about street names, "how about those Olympics," or the weather, my main goal was to create a "reunion" rather than a "new person" kind of thing.

Not sure how I would have handled the sneaky pic, but pretty sure I would have made known my discomfit with the possibility of MY identity being compromised by a stranger...or not... Hmmmm.

Very good discussion here; lots to think about.

Reply by HisHughness on 8/5/12 12:30pm
Msg #429412

It's a rare scam artist who drives a SmartCar, Susan. n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/5/12 1:40pm
Msg #429415

Here's how I'd handle it

...well, not much I could do after he took the pic but I have given the borrower my business card, a copy of my commission, shown my connection to the hiring party. I would NOT allow the borrower to see my ID but instead would request he/she call the police - the non-emergency number and request what's called a "citizen's assist". An officer would come to the borrower's home and I'd gladly give the officer my ID to run through the system plus he/she can run my license plate. Then the officer would tell the borrower I checked out okay.

Also, I would not allow myself to be audio/video taped.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/5/12 5:44pm
Msg #429427

To add....

To nip this "I must know you're whole life before you step foot in my door" syndrome, I would make a dramatic "show" of the borrower's demand <for seeing your ID> by pulling a piece of paper out of my pocket with that city's non-emergency police dispatch phone number (which I googled prior to the appt) and show the borrowers. THEN, I'd unlock my phone and start dialing....

I'm fairly certain the LAST thing the borrowers want is a patrol car sitting in front of their home for nosy neighbors to see and start nosily questioning them about. Therefore, there's a high probability borrower will ask you to not finish the call and will move forward with the signing.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/5/12 8:01pm
Msg #429436

Re: To add....

I really like your approach, LKT, but I don't think I could/would pull it off. If they're not satisfied seeing my business card, then I'd be inclined at that point to say I'll sit in my car or stand on the front porch for a few minutes while they verify with the LO or the TC that I am indeed the notary with their loan docs. If they can't get on board with that, then they need to resked for somewhere else where they feel more comfortable. I'm never showing them my DL (tho there are plenty of notaries who seemingly have no problem with that but I'm not one of them.) If they're so scared and their home is so sacred that they can't settle down and conclude this business deal without freakinh out that I'm some sort of walkin', talkin' identity thief who just happened to arrive at their door the exact moment they had requested a notary and then have to rant for half hour about how everybody's out to get them, then I'm outta there.

I got blindsided by the borrower who took the picture before I even made it to the kitchen table. That was a first. Next time, well, after thinking this over, there won't be a next time. I'd tell them they need to delete the picture (which of course they wouldn't) and then just leave.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/5/12 8:06pm
Msg #429437

On second thought ....

I don't really know what I'd do! After all, when we sign at a bank/CU branch everybody's being video taped ... and probably audio taped, as well. We have no privacy. We don't give consent to any of this (maybe implied consent).. they just do it.

I was at a restaurant the other day and was looking around at all the decor and noticed up near the ceiling a video camera recording every bite everybody took!

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/5/12 8:44pm
Msg #429439

Re: On second thought ....

To clarify: I would not allow the borrower to audio/video tape ME at the signing. I'd leave and return the job to the hiring party. I'm well aware we're "on camera" in most public venues.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/6/12 10:53am
Msg #429484

Re: On second thought ....

This does make me wonder, though, if we haven't been secretly recorded in these homes, via "nanny" cams or the like.

I do know that in California, the use of hidden cameras in the home is perfectly legal, but you can't record any sound without permission. I learned of this while doing research for a client of mine for whom I do virtual assistant work. She was going to be away from home for a few weeks after a flood in her kitchen that ruined the entire first floor of her home, and during that time she had arranged for multiple crews to be in the homes (carpenter, carpet cleaning, maid service, exterminator, etc.). She wanted to know if it was legal to install a hidden camera in various places in the home. Turned out, it absolutely was legal, and she did NOT have to inform them of it as long as she didn't record their voices.