Posted by Leo Farmer on 8/14/12 11:19pm
Msg #430476
Siging Service Agency
Is there a place to go to get reliable info on establishing a signing service agency., rather than becoming a signing agent.
| Reply by HisHughness on 8/15/12 12:01am
Msg #430479
I don't know why you would think you have to do it any differently than the scores of other people who started signing services and then went bankrupt.
1. Establish a web site.
2. Hire a designer.
3. Compile an email list of signing agents.
4. Sent out a blanket invitation to join your service for $XXX dollars.
5. Promise that for that fee they will be the very first signing agent you call when you have an assignment in their area from the hundreds of lenders and title companies who use your service.
6. When you have conned the requisite number of signing agents to join up, actually begin soliciting lenders and title companies. Offer to handle their signings for 20 percent less than the service they are now using.
7. For the occasional assignments you do get, offer them to your signing agents at $40. Never pay more than $60.
8. Pat yourself on the back when you realize that if you never pay your signing agents, then your profit for each closing is 100 percent.
9. When you awaken to the realization that the only people who will work for you are, indeed, signings agents worth only $40, turn off your phone, shut down your website, throw away the list of unpaid notaries you had compiled, and walk away.
10. Wait three months, then establish a new web site for a new signing agency using your wife's name.
| Reply by Clem/CA on 8/15/12 12:23am
Msg #430480
But what name should he use?
| Reply by Leo Farmer on 8/15/12 12:52pm
Msg #430528
I can only assume Hugh , that you do not take assignments from signing agencies.
| Reply by MW/VA on 8/15/12 8:37am
Msg #430484
Sylvia operated a ss & could probably give you
pointers. The biggest thing would be to make sure you have enough capital to pay the notaries without waiting for payment from the cos. From my experience, many ss are set up on a shoestring, thinking they're going to make money on volume, but this is a tough biz.
You can check signing central to see how many have problems paying the notaries in a timely manner.
| Reply by Leo Farmer on 8/15/12 12:53pm
Msg #430529
Re: Sylvia operated a ss & could probably give you
Thanks
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/15/12 10:07am
Msg #430490
Hugh’s answer works for 98%or the signing services out there, but if you want to start a legitimate, honest SS….
Do you have years of experience in the title/lending business? You must be able to know how to handle the myriad of problems, and questions that will come up every day from the notaries/lenders/title, and borrowers.
Do you have years worth of contacts with title companies to enable you to get orders from them? There’s a lot of competition out there, much of it “in house’. In other words a SS owned by a title company. (like FASS)
One of the prime reasons that title companies use a SS is because of billing. It’s a lot easier to cut the SS one check a month, that have someone cut 100 and keep accounting of it all. However that means the SS, when contracting for the service MUST pay, and have the capital ($) to pay the notaries when they do the job, not have to wait a month for title to pay them. This means if you do any business at all you will have twenty thousand dollars plus of YOUR money out there every week, with more than that in accounts receivable every month. You MUST have at least $50,000.00 in cash to start into this business.
And remember you are risking much for little return. It today’s market you will be lucky to get $125 to $150 per assignment. If you pay out $100 per,(you will need to pay this amount, or more to get competent notaries), then pay for your schedulers, toll free phone/fax numbers/web site/ accounting/ computers/equipment/ postage/courier fees/heat/electricity/maybe rent/and general overhead. (And don’t forget the occasional screw-up that you will have the notary, and title sure as hell ain’t gonna pay you for, that REALLY eats into your profits) You will be lucky to make $10 per file. If some small title company gives you a couple of orders a day, then goes belly up…guess what? You just lost 8-10 grand. And if a big customer fails (it can, and does happen) you are sunk!
So if you are thinking about starting a legitimate SS….. think hard, you must be prepared to NEVER leave your phone/computer, work (east coast to west coast) when title is open, AND until your last signing is done at night, at least 15 hours a day, seven days a week, risk at least 50 grand, and probably your entire life’s savings/net worth, work your ass off non-stop without a break (no 2 week vacation) for ten bucks a file, and must KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING (that means more than the lender/title/notary) give it a shot.
If you are a thief…. Hugh’s suggestions seem okay. JMO
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 10:54am
Msg #430510
*It’s a lot easier to cut the SS one check a month, that have someone cut 100 and keep accounting of it all.*
Let's hope that signing services do not try to cash in on surveyors, inspectors, or appraisers to help cut down the bookkeeping in TCs. Maybe even RE agents.
<Unsolicited OT Rant Regarding Middlemen Insertion into Transactions>
I have friends who established an amazingly profitable salvage yard years ago--it saved money for the public and created a 30 employee small business.
One day, they realized that their supply of inventory (wrecked cars) had all but dried up. Enter the national services that broker wrecked cars. For a pricey annual membership or finder's fee, they can buy inventory THROUGH the national brokers' databases...they reached around small businesses and created databases and various types of brokering situations.
Then, there are the pharmacy cards middle men that have all but bankrupted the last of the Mom & Pop pharmacies. On many cards that are randomly mass distributed to consumers, discounts come out of the pockets of the pharmacy owners--not big pharma-- and the discount cards make $2-$5 a sale!
The thing is that Mom & Pop were already working with people who had no insurance; now they are being railroaded into a situation where they have to pay the middleman, too. It is killing their businesses because they look awful if they do not honor the discount card. Good bye wonderful pharmacists who will go down to the store at 2 am if you need them to.
So, I have a problem with the middlemen who do little, pay little, and insert themselves into transactions.
I understand business; I understand that where there is a way to make money and offer a service, it will be discovered and handled.
Greetings to the corporations who have set up notary banks in Va. to notarize for America from a web portal....you are just another type of middleman.
</Unsolicited OT Rant Regarding Middlemen Insertion into Transactions>
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/15/12 12:01pm
Msg #430517
It is also easier to call a SS with an order and let them mess with it than, hire schedulers to schedule, answer/make hundreds phone calls to/from notaries wanting docs, or with questions on the docs, or how to do something, or borrowers with questions. Spend hours tracking packages, and calling notaries if for some reason they forgot to drop the package. To liaise with the lender/LO on if the package was signed, and if there were fax-backs, (especially on purchases) and if the package is on its way. And many more time consuming things that a good SS does. Yes someone cuts a check from escrow to the title company for their services (including/notary/SS) at closing, and isn’t it nice to have that ‘extra’ money floating in their operating account, for a month? And don’t forget all this PITA stuff comes to title absolutely 100% free! All paid by the borrower. As far as ‘middlemen’ did you ever think that WE NSA’s are just that to all local title companies doing closings they could do? That is if they wanted to, and probably would, except our service to them is again free. I still say a good SS has a place in this business, and if it weren’t for them, many notaries (including me) would have far less work. Just remember to charge what you’re worth, to the SS to Title (I never charge Title more) or the individual that hires you. JMO
| Reply by Leo Farmer on 8/15/12 1:09pm
Msg #430530
Thanks for civil advice. I pity a newbie who comes to the forum seeking advice :-)
| Reply by CJ on 8/15/12 1:29pm
Msg #430535
Newbies seeking advice.
Hi Leo,
Honestly, Hugh went easy on you. Newbies who come here and say, "Hi Gang! How can I be a notary and make a pile of money too?!" They are shredded. Nobody is going to tell anyone how to take our hard-earned money out of our pockets and give it to a newbie.
Hugh's scenario is what SO many companies have done to us. The take our "sign up fees", they take our work, they don't pay us, and they dissapper with our hard earned money. I have sued SSs, but even when I get a judgment, the companies have emptied their accounts and run off with our money.
Hugh really was giving you good advice, but he disguised it: Just do the opposite of everything that he said. We would LOVE it if a new company started with lots of work and they paid fairly and on time. For starters, don't charge-up fee. Have money put aside so that you can pay the notaries on time. Pick up the phone and don't give us the run-around.
People ask me all the time, "Why don't you open your own SS company and make tons of money?" Becuase as hard as I work, I know what the SS are going through and I don't want that headache. First, you have to have a TON of E&O insurance. If one of your notaries flubs a job, they are probably going to come after you too. What about notaries who take jobs and then forget, or cancel, or have emergencies, and it is YOUR problem to get another notary RIGHT NOW. What if a notary is out late signing and runs into a problem. Who are they going to call? YOU!!! You better know how to either HANDLE that problem, OR, be able to get a hold of the title agent at 10:30 at night. I have been doing this for 12 years, and I only call the SS when it is a catastrophie. I can handle the regular problems. Be prepared to babysit that phone 24-7, and it's only going to ring with problems.
Have you been doing mobile notary work? I suspect you have not, becuase if you had, you would already have a good idea what it would take to run a SS.
I hope you are successful. We all love working for honest, on-the-ball signing services that pay on time.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 2:46pm
Msg #430549
Like I said, I understand ease and business. As you know, I do not hold SS businesses in high esteem because I have seen too many poor practices over the years. Too many who have gone into business without a clue about the type of service they are brokering.
I have known many escrow agents with large volume that looked at them exactly like I do. They simply sent the packages to notaries or to the borrower with instructions to find a notary. I agree that there are exceptions and I've been treated well by several.
But...
*As far as ‘middlemen’ did you ever think that WE NSA’s are just that to all local title companies doing closings they could do? *
We are not middlemen. We do not insert ourselves into a transaction purely to broker a service or product. We are direct competition; agents of competing large-reaching title companies.
Middleman
Noun:
A person who buys goods from producers and sells them to retailers or consumers.
A person who arranges business or political deals between other people.
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/15/12 4:10pm
Msg #430570
For local Title Companies that is EXACTLY what we do…. We “insert ourselves in the signing/closing ”process.” WE ‘are’ middlemen and get paid for it in every since. We go get the loan documents signed/notarized rather than the Title Company having one of their employees do it. We “broker” nothing. (unless we farm–out) We are not in any way ‘direct competition’ unless we have a licensed title company. We just do the job that some escrow/notary/employee at the title company does every day as a requisite to the loan closing and the title company being able to collect their title policy premium. We are not ‘agents’ of some large multi-state title company (that may be competition) but lowly sub- contractors. Sorry Brenda I love you…but this time you are in my opinion dead wrong. JMO
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 5:03pm
Msg #430580
Ok. We disagree...love you, too. 
Perhaps agent was a bad choice of words. "Contractor" is better. Forget that I said "agent".
No way that notary signing agents fit the definition of middleman. Signing agents broker nothing; signing service broker notary services. That is a middleman.
From the lips of local escrow officers, yes, SAs bring their competition right to their local service areas.
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/15/12 6:10pm
Msg #430596
It is true that the SS may not actually perform the 'in person' notarization of the docs, but they do guarantee the job, get it done, instruct, advise, do the proper paperwork, advance money, and coordinate. And they are held financially (like 1 million dollars worth of business/ liability insurance) responsible by the hiring agency. And by the notaries for payment. They are in reality much more a facilitator / financer/ guarantor, of the jobs we do than just someone that lays it off, or farms it out. There are SS and there that are owned and run by honest good people that have our (without us they are out of business) best interests at heart, and some by big title companies seeking more profits, and some by thieves that want to take all from us. The good ones really are not parasites, but a boon to this business. The others not. There are liars, thieves, and crooks in abundance…so watch out! JMO
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 9:18pm
Msg #430625
Totally agree! n/m
| Reply by MikeC/TX on 8/15/12 4:39pm
Msg #430575
"Let's hope that signing services do not try to cash in on surveyors, inspectors, or appraisers to help cut down the bookkeeping in TCs"
Actually, that has already happened to a certain extent with appraisers - they can no longer be hired directly by the bank, there is now a middleman agency that will assign an appraiser. As a result, the fee the appraiser gets has dropped significantly, since the middleman agency is taking a cut. And sometimes the agency sends in an appraiser who is not familiar with the area and cannot realistically give a fair appraisal. A few years ago I had a deal blow up because the appraisal came in $25K lower than the selling price - appraiser was from out of the area and used bad comps.
This was done to stop collusion between the banks and the appraisers, but it created a nightmare for a while.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 5:06pm
Msg #430581
Interesting, Mike. Thanks.
Actually, middlemen have flourished in the title research business too. I didn't think to mention them.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/12 10:36am
Msg #430500
My humble advice is that if you are asking this question, you probably need about five more years of experience before you consider it.
| Reply by CJ on 8/15/12 1:31pm
Msg #430536
More helpful advice.
If I were you, I would read this forum every day. You will see the problems we face. It will help you create a better signing service.
Also, read the comments regarding the compaines on signing central: you will see what makes a good company and what makes a bad company.
| Reply by CJ on 8/15/12 1:51pm
Msg #430538
P.S.
You better know notary law too. I have had all kinds of people: realtors, brokers, loan officers, and bank tellers say, "It's okay, just do it like this". NO! It's illegal! And then they get upset that I am "so picky". Sorry: I'm not losing my license, job, and go to jail just because someone is all worked up about their loan. Even title USUALLY knows what to to, but sometimes they have new assistant who has not run into that problem before.
I have one SS, and he says, "If you have a question, you call ME! If there is ANY problem with the docs, you call ME. I don't care if you KNOW the answer: I don't pay you to think, I pay you to call ME". He knows that if I make a mistake, it will be HIS head that rolls. I think he tells his clients that NOTHING will go wrong with their job and then he sees to it. I can get him at midnight and I have learned, he can get title at midnight too. And his checks come like clockwork. I like working for him.
| Reply by CJ on 8/15/12 2:03pm
Msg #430542
Another thought
If and when you get your SS up and running, please don't treat the notaries like they are beneath you. We are all a team . Of course, notaries who work with SS need them, but likewise, SS need the notaries too.
| Reply by Les_CO on 8/15/12 4:42pm
Msg #430576
Re: Another thought
To those of us that are experienced, a SS offers nothing more than ease of getting work. To those not so, perhaps in addition they offer advice and guidance and direction. I love some, I hate others. I believe the most important thing a NSA has to learn to prosper (well sort of, maybe just get by) in this business is…..”Who to work for” If a company doesn’t have a very good rating here (read the comments) or you have not previously worked for them, and been paid, ask for payment in advance, (PayPal) if they say no….you have probably just saved yourself a good deal of money and time. (Be advised that good companies are not going to be unconvinced by messing with PayPal just to get your service…they will just call someone else. The deadbeats will also refuse. But for different reasons… they just don’t pay anyone!)…..This business takes knowledge, skill, attention to minute detail,…and a bit of clairvoyance…JMO
|
|
