Posted by jac_il on 8/3/12 10:45am
Msg #429223

Signed and Dated Note

Just throwing a question out there to see how people respond. I recently had a company ask me to have the borrower resign a note. They stated it had the wrong date on the document. I scanned this document and have a copy. It is not the wrong date, the borrower used a gel pen and it was kind of thick. The numbers bled a bit. The note also did not need to be dated, but the borrower did because he dated everything else. Title claimed the date was wrong on the note only but all other docs okay. I ask for a copy of the note from title (to match to the copy I had scanned) and for it to be returned so there are not two signed notes floating out in lender land.

How would you of handled this? Do you think it is okay for there to be 2 signed notes in a lenders hands? The signing company was not co-operative and refused to ask the title company for proof as well. Stating they do not ask for proof when a lender/title wants something resigned. I told them I need proof as I am not making a 2nd trip for free if it was not my mistake and I missed the date. In this situation I think it was more the pen bleed and it was fuzzy. I have a copy I made before shipping and I can read the date. Thoughts?

Also, I am finding more and more that I need to scan all critical docs before shipping. Is anyone else doing this?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/3/12 10:58am
Msg #429225

If they want another signed note they could just send it to the borrower. It isn't (usually) a notarized document.

I am wondering why the borrower used a gel pen? I always handed the borrower a pen to make sure the pen was OK. I would have stopped any borrower from using a gel pen.

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:12am
Msg #429227

Borrower stated he felt ball point pens ink can be lifted and preferred to use his own pen. Being the VP of a major company, lawyer giving me a cashiers check for 50k, I can not make him use my blue ball point pen if he has a blue pen he wants to use. It wasn't a cheap gel pen it was a very expensive mont blanc pen with blue ink.

You also did not answer the question, instead you judged me. Thanks Slyvia.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/3/12 11:20am
Msg #429229

I did answer the question. I said they could have sent the note directly to the borrower to sign. It is not usually a notarized document.

As for 2 signed notes in a package (which I did not address) I believe the note has the loan number on it, so there wouldn't be a problem.

I did not judge you, I stated that I would not have let the borrower use a gel pen.

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:26am
Msg #429231

thanks for the clarification. It is the 2 notes floating around that is the concern. And yes I agree they could of contacted the borrower directly. Instead they called me at 8pm at night wanting a resign and to get it to them today for funding. I just feel if this were the case, they should provide me a copy of the alleged error. Since I had a copy I new it was not the wrong date. They should just be forth right and saw we would like a clean copy with no date. I can not imagine the date continued to bleed hours later and after shipping. But you are right I will never let someone use their own pen again. I have been doing this well over 15 years and have never had a problem with an ink, fountain or gel type pen ever. In fact, many law firms I go to use the 1mm fine point gel pens and provide them to me for their closings.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 8/3/12 11:24am
Msg #429230

Wow

Sylvia did not judge you and she did answer the question. You asked for opinions, and you got some. Only trying to help, not judge.

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:28am
Msg #429234

Re: Wow

thank you both for your opinions. I felt the well you should not use the gel pen to begin with wrong I guess. However as I stated here in IL they are widely used at law firms and title companies. In fact, they provide them and they are on their tables. However, they are the fine point 1mm and yes his pen was not a fine point. It was writing thicker.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/3/12 11:30am
Msg #429235

Re: Wow

There's no problem Deborah Jac just misunderstood my reply. She understood my clarification.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 8/3/12 11:35am
Msg #429236

Cool...... n/m

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:41am
Msg #429237

sorry

Sorry, just annoyed with this title company. Every time I do a signing for them. There is an issue. First the PDF they sent over was a corrupted file. I print remotely so I sent it to my printer while out in the field working and the docs were all jibberish. So I thought it was my printer. I turn printer off etc and try again same thing. Then I go to have them printed else where, same thing so I decide to open them on my phone that has google and message pops up when I open the docs on my phone to forward saying corrupt file. I send them to my printer from my ipad and that message did not pop up. It was just a big hassle. Now this. Then they always have trailing docs and they want me to contact the borrowers for their trailing docs when they can contact them directly. I like the singing company but this title company is a big pain. I have to question why they did not open their PDF files after creating them to make sure they were okay. I already made a 2nd trip to this borrower for FREE!

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 8/3/12 11:05am
Msg #429226

1. First I do not allow the borrowers to use a gel pen. I bring my own pens. If a borrower wants to use a favorite pen, I tell them please use mine because lenders, title companies, and recorders can be very particular and we don't want to jeopardize your funding.

2. If the note does not call for a date, tell them not to date it. I have one TC that specifically states this in their instructions - the note should not be dated. I tell them to date it if it says "date." Otherwise, do not date it, or anything else for that matter.

How would I have handled it? If the pen bled and was fuzzy, I would consider that my fault for allowing it to happen. I would probably go back for free, and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Plus, keeping my client happy.

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:15am
Msg #429228

In my copy which I scanned hours later it before shipping it was not fuzzy. I had borrower sign my copy and he dated it. I asked him not to. He signed his copy and dated it. I had no more copies.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 8/3/12 11:45am
Msg #429238

Your op does't indicate that title had a problem with the pen used yet you keep discussing the possibility of fuzzy ink so I am confused. Did title say there was a problem with the ink, or as your op states it was a problem with the date? I could see that if the lender does not want the note dated and it was dated, whether correct date or not, it could be interpreted as "wrong date." JMO

Reply by jac_il on 8/3/12 11:52am
Msg #429240

they asked that he redo doc period. They stated he could date it if he wished. They stated he had the wrong date on it. But I have a scan with the right date on it. I asked them for a copy of the document they had and they refused. I can guess it was not clear enough for them, they spilled water on it.... I am just guessing here. Why not just give me a scan of the document? I scan my critical documents before shipping for my own "protection" and I do destroy them after funding. I have had to refer to my scanned companies quite frequently in the past few months. I am not sure what is going on with title companies losing docs etc. In some cases my scanning the docs have saved the day for the lender/title.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 8/3/12 7:46pm
Msg #429286

"But I have a scan with the right date on it. I asked them for a copy of the document they had and they refused."

Well, in my opinion, that's the end of the argument and they lose.

If they can't produce the "error" that requires another signing on your dime, there was no error. Maybe there's some guy in their office with OCD who wants to see everything lined up just so, but that's not your problem - if they refuse to show you what you did wrong, you did nothing wrong.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/3/12 12:15pm
Msg #429248

I've seen specific instructions come through lately

not to have the borrowers date docs that don't require it. Sometimes they just do it automatically, and I didn't see that as a big deal.
When I started out I used gel pens for ease of signing. I realized they could bleed & have ball points for them to use. I don't personally like ball point pens, but they can't run.
As far as the re-signing of the Note, I don't see that as a big deal either. Remember--the golden rule--those that have the gold make the rules. If they want it resigned in order to fund I'd do as they ask.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/4/12 8:51pm
Msg #429374

Re: Specific instructions

<not to have the borrowers date docs that don't require it. Sometimes they just do it automatically, and I didn't see that as a big deal.>

I, too was just asked by Lender to have a note resigned because borrower added a date. I complied, but the real issue (which made them very upset) was NOT notarizing the Note. I was told that the loan couldn't fund without. I explained that I would get Note resigned without date, include an Acknowledgment (as of orig date); since it was obvious that they still had the orig signed Note AND I DID Witness the signing both times! My Acknowledgment form is used for this Note issue which is big; but borrower doesn't sign. It just mentions the Type of doc that is "attached" and was witnessed.

What's interesting to me is that on one day I had two signings: SC1 did not want borrower's initials on Note (and didn't ask for it to be notarized) or DOT; then there was SC2 mentioned above.

In training, we were told to have borrower initial all pages of DOT. Well, now I just stick to the INSTRUCTIONS given. No lines for initials, none requested of borrower - and NOT dates where none requested. Since I can't guess who wants what (and on which day), I'll just let those with "the gold make the rules," as stated (:

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/5/12 8:24am
Msg #429394

Re: Specific instructions

"I explained that I would get Note resigned without date, include an Acknowledgment (as of orig date); since it was obvious that they still had the orig signed Note AND I DID Witness the signing both times"

Are you saying you went back and met with the borrowers to get a new Note signed at a later date and then notarized that new Note with the original date of closing? I hope I've read this wrong.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 8/5/12 9:04pm
Msg #429443

Re: Specific instructions

Lender could have just sent Note to Borrower to resign without adding a date. I only did as a courtesy. I never notarize Notes; however, I will send a separate acknowledgment stating signature was witnessed. I did so on the initial signing, but the Lender requested a new acknowledgment, hoping I'd "backdate"; I explained that that wasn't going to happen and just sent a fresh copy of the acknowledgment along with the new (undated) Note signed by borrower. It is a "concession" I felt I had to make in this case.

Reply by Venita Peyton on 8/3/12 1:32pm
Msg #429264

Yes, it was your mistake. In rechecking the docs before leaving, you would have noticed that the borrower inadvertently dated the Note. This gave you time to re-do by using the Borrower's copy.

Thank you for sharing this matter, because it impresses the need for using ballpoint pens. All of my requestors require it.