Posted by BrendaTx on 7/15/12 2:01pm
Msg #426936

About Blank Spaces in Documents

I'm scouring the 'net today to find a credible legal source that I once had that said that some documents are meant to have blanks in them and that notaries should not fill them in.

Notaries are to inspect for completeness according to some laws and most "rules" established by notary officials. Every time I say, "ALWAYS do this or that..." I get pinged by a really good reason that ALWAYS is not right. (Don't I Lee/AR? lol!)

Please feel free to send me a pm if you don't want to answer in the forum because you do not want to get flogged and I will share it without your name. (Will do that because it makes people crazy to see that a pm is welcome. )

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/15/12 2:26pm
Msg #426939

<<I'm scouring the 'net today to find a credible legal source that I once had that said that some documents are meant to have blanks in them and that notaries should not fill them in>>

Well, good luck with that. In any case, you meant that the "notaries should not (have the signers) fill them in," right?

As for the reverse, this is what the CA SOS wrote in its latest newsletter: "A notary pubic must refuse to notarize a signature on an incomplete document (i.e. a document that the NP can see is incomplete or that the NP knows from experience is incomplete). Govt Code blah blah."

I think it was PAW who once wrote that there was a big difference between incomplete docs and blank spots (i.e. areas that can be filled in later and that will not change the purpose or intent of the document or blanks that simply cannot be filled in or weren't ever intended to be filled in, etc. )

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/15/12 2:52pm
Msg #426941

Thanks GG!

I believe that is 100% correct.

Reply by ikando on 7/15/12 3:31pm
Msg #426950

I frequently come across people presenting documents with blank spaces. The worst are those who only want me to see the page with the notary information.

I once was called to a hospital where the patient was giving a POA to her daughter. The daughter brought the paperwork to me, and said the attorney had told her it was okay to sign the way it was. I asked to see the full document so I could go over it with the patient, and found no names on it.

The attorney (?) had sent the daughter a form and she didn't understand she needed to fill in the blanks. Fortunately it was one of the less complicated forms, so she could complete it as needed, and I could complete the notarization.

If I hadn't seen the blanks, it would have been a totally useless document.

Reply by 101livescan on 7/15/12 6:05pm
Msg #426960

Exactly....like the per diem rate of interest calculation, the no of days interest will be calculated to close of escrow.

Often left completely blank for funding department at loan funding when the wire is actually sent...

No way any one knows that will be exactly $XX.XX til the loan funds.

I love these cast in concrete rules that everyone seems to want. I can't even begin to guess the thinking of XYZ in some of their "rules", as there is no blanket rule.

There are plenty of loan documents out there with blanks. Everyone trying to cover their asses.

It drives me crazy to see people try to over-engineer the intent of some of these requirements.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/15/12 7:46pm
Msg #426974

<<<Exactly....like the per diem rate of interest calculation, the no of days interest will be calculated to close of escrow....Often left completely blank for funding department at loan funding when the wire is actually sent...No way any one knows that will be exactly $XX.XX til the loan funds.>>>

I don't believe those docs are notarized (like the 1003 mentioned below)....are they?

It's an automatic 30 days interest charge if the loan is FHA. Example: Escrow closes the 3rd day of the month....that's only 3 days interest with a conventional loan but if loan is FHA? Borrowers are charged for 30 days interest, so nothing for funding dept to figure out on an FHA loan.

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/15/12 10:57pm
Msg #426986

Interest charged

What the Bo might want to know is if the the loan, ( refi ), closes on a Friday but the money is not dispersed until the next Business day, Monday or Tuesday,(Holiday on Monday), they might have to pay interest on the existing loan AND the new loan for, Sun, Monday and (Tuesday), (Holiday on Monday). That's a lot of money if it is a high priced deal. I think this is one of those docs that protects the Title and loan cos from lawsuits, but I am not a lawer, so I don't know why. HUGH? Anyone? Let me know what you think

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/15/12 2:52pm
Msg #426942

correction - Notaries should not require them to be filled

in.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/15/12 3:46pm
Msg #426951

MI has no such restriction - sensibly repealed IMO. =) n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/15/12 4:19pm
Msg #426952

Info that applies to the signer (or other named persons in the doc) should be written in. If it doesn't apply, then it can be left blank or "N/A" written on that line.

A document isn't "incomplete" just because there are blank lines, if those blank lines don't apply to the signer (or other named persons in the doc). It is incomplete when info that does apply is not filled in.

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/15/12 5:00pm
Msg #426955

No blank spaces on page 4 of the 1003? whats this world coming to?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/15/12 7:15pm
Msg #426967

Ha Ha, Clem; at least I think you're trying to be funny, since we don't notarize loan apps.

In any case, this reminds me: I once refused to notarize a Deed of Trust because at the signing I noticed that Pages 11 and 12 of a 17 page DOT (or something like that, were missing)! I double checked and sure' nuff, the lender or somebody just forgot to send them. The SS thought I was crazy for putting my foot down on this. Maybe I am (or was); but talk about not notarizing incomplete docs! How can you notarize a sig on a Deed that's missing some pages? Yikes!

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/15/12 7:44pm
Msg #426973

Busted!.... you win

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/15/12 7:47pm
Msg #426975

LOL n/m