Posted by LisaWI on 7/13/12 1:21pm
Msg #426669

CSS-Convenient Settlement Services~Very Long

Question and vent time.....can a company withhold your payment because you refuse to sign their contract?

Circumstances: Was called at last minute at EOM to accommodate the closing. I accepted feeling sorry for them and the borrowers (yep, first mistake). Went thru their lengthy instructions to make sure I did everything correctly as I hadnt worked for them or this title company and I was a little under the gun as the borrowers were waiting on me patiently. It was actually past their appt time as the first gal had turned back the closing and couldnt complete it. Went over everything as best as I could given the circumstances to make sure I followed their directions correctly and the title companies instructions correctly pertaining to the loan closing.

To make this as short as possible.....I completed the closing accurately and with no problems. I come home, gave requested follow up email and retire for the night.

Next morning, I get up, check my emails and in there is a email from them with attachments for signing up to be in their database. At this point, Im still really busy doing closings, so I respectfully respond to email saying I will review it when I get a spare moment. So I did a few days later. In the attachments is a Contract and Application which I dont do as my own personal business policy and for my own reasons. So I respond back with all the other requested info such as copy of my commission, W9, etc. Stating that I do not sign Signing Service Contracts and do not wish to be added to their database of Notaries so do not feel the Contract or Application is necessary.

I had sent the requested info with a request for a response that they received all the info. I didnt receive a response so I emailed asking if they had received it. They said yes, but they needed the signed contract. I said I dont sign Contracts with Signing Services and the gal came back at me that it is written in your confirmation that you will complete the Contract and the Application. And yes it is there, but at the very end of the confirmation. Which yes, I read thru the last paragraph very quickly, saw that it didn’t contain specific instructions to this closing so passed it off as non important at this time. Mind you, they haven’t sent the Contract or Application to me yet, just my confirmation and instructions.

So again, last minute, rushed closing, in-between other appts….what would be your priorites at this point? To complete the closing accurately I would think and get the job done following all instructions to a T. Which I can proudly say, I did. Including their 3 emails with follow up status’s, that were quite elementary items, but be it as it may, I complied.

Completed closing, no mistakes, professionalism to all parties involved along the whole way…..

The only thing I did wrong was not to read the statement at the end of their confirmation stating that I agreed to sign the Contract and Application. So I am being told without the signed Contract, I will not be paid.

Conclusion…..I have pretty much quit working with SS’s for the most part (there are couple who I love and they know who they are)….and always swear that I will not do any more closings for them. Im tired of the mile long instructions of guidelines that shouldn’t even have to be written down if you are a professional to begin with, (you know, the common sense ones, like dress professionally, or how to ID someone properly) tired of the inaccurate instructions for our states homestead laws or ID guidelines that you have to correct them on every single time, or even better the instructions that contradict each other or just plain don’t make any sense. Im tired of some of the companies being really nice and professional to you cause they have to get it closed, but when there is a discrepancy only related to getting payment for a accurately completed closing, it turns into a situation where you are questioning yourself on why you took the closing.

So much for short, lol……

Please note, that of as so far, the gal I have been speaking via email has been professional. I have stated my case and her theirs. It is acknowledged that the statement she is saying is at the end of their confirmation exists and yes, I did miss it. But I do not believe this has to be this complicated. I did the closing, I agree I don’t want to work for your company any more, therefore a Contract is not needed so payment should be issued. Lets conclude this relationship on good terms and part our ways respectfully.....thats all I ask......

Oh, did Lisa learn a lesson, why yes she did!……Im picky on who I work for, for a reason. I consider myself to be one this areas best closers, mind you I said best, not perfect, lol…..I consider the relationships I have cultivated over the years to be well pollinated and very fruitful and not just in a monetary sense. I am very proud of the business that I have retained over the years because of my thoroughness and professionalism. The lesson learned is to stick with my parameters on who I take closings from which is a shame because I meet some wonderful people at the closings doing this business, but its not worth going thru the hassle of receiving payment.

Reply by ct on 7/13/12 1:41pm
Msg #426673

Fill out the form to sue them in small claims..tell them you will file within a certain time frame..worked for me every several times...they have to show up or lose case...

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 1:45pm
Msg #426676

Yes I know the routine, but wouldnt this be less stressful for everyone involved to just pay me, lol......including them?

I would rather work this out without going to extremes.....

Reply by ct on 7/13/12 1:51pm
Msg #426677

To me it isn't extreme..your not getting paid for work you completed..they are playing hard ball..You fill out the form and tell them this is your only option..let them decide if they want you to file..since you don't want to work for them again what do you have to lose..I have used this technique only as a final option..but it did work both times!!

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 1:58pm
Msg #426678

Thank you CT and I agree with you, going this route will be taken into consideration in addition to a couple of other steps concerning the Insurance Dept and Dept of Commerce.....

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/13/12 2:12pm
Msg #426683

The only problem is sometimes it costs more to file the claim and have served than they money you are collecting.

Reply by sueharke on 7/13/12 4:05pm
Msg #426704

Great answer! This company sounds as bad as terms of agreement for a software license.

Reply by janCA on 7/13/12 2:01pm
Msg #426680

Fill in as much of the information they need in order for you to get paid, cross out everything else, initial and sign. You are meeting their requirement.

Reply by CentralNY on 7/13/12 2:10pm
Msg #426681

Jan, good advice. Just as an aside and this got me thinking, has anyone that has signed a SS contract been sued or challeged for non-compliance.

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 2:11pm
Msg #426682

Thanx Jan, but my point kind of is NOT to sign it....for the one closing that I completed for them, I complied with their Contract Terms. The Contract itself was not given to me BEFORE the closing, it was only demanded that I sign it after the fact in order to receive payment.

Not cool......

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/13/12 2:14pm
Msg #426684

I personally would not sign it. You did your job, the file will fund, you need to get paid. Period. If they needed that contract signed so badly, they should have had it signed before they sent you the job.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/13/12 2:29pm
Msg #426685

IMO you need to point out to them that you were not told

when you accepted the assignment that you needed to sign a contract. I can't, of course, give legal advice, but I can't see how they can withhold payment.
I've found that it never seems to fail that the "last minute, emergency, rush-rush" signings are the one's with the most problems. I know we all get caught up in at EOM.
Good luck on collecting & let us know how it plays out. :-)

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 2:38pm
Msg #426687

Re: IMO you need to point out to them that you were not told

LOL, Marilynn, I did, I was told I should have asked if there was a contract before I did the closing......

The gal and I have been back and forth....she is not bending, nor am I......I have no choice but to view this as them trying to wiggle out of payment......

Reply by MW/VA on 7/13/12 2:44pm
Msg #426690

I think I'd send the contract, mark through anything you

object to, and send it. I stopped worked for these folks a long time ago. They pay low fees & collection was an issue, as I recall.
BTW, I've completed many ICA's, and there have only been a couple that I didn't because they were completely unreasonable.

Reply by ct on 7/13/12 2:48pm
Msg #426691

Re: IMO you need to point out to them that you were not told

I have never had to file a small claims..just filling out the form and sending it should do the trick..when they see their name on the form it tends to show that you are serious..but signing contract and lining thru items you don't agree with may also do the trick..the things we have to do to get paid!! Good luck!!

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 3:06pm
Msg #426694

Re: Thank you Everyone

for all your suggestions and feedback. It is appreciated The jury is still out on what I will do....if anything at all.....I do not believe that companies should be able to bully us into signing contracts in order to receive payment. Given the circumstances of this particular situation, I believe I am in the right and I also believe that all situations have exceptions to the rule....

When the payment date comes closer, and if I dont receive payment, I will update this post so others can be aware.....

Reply by MW/VA on 7/13/12 3:08pm
Msg #426696

IMO the contracts are there to cover their liability. If I

were in their shoes I'd insist on getting it signed too. We're IC's, and they won't accept liability for our actions.

Reply by LisaWI on 7/13/12 3:19pm
Msg #426699

Re: IMO the contracts are there to cover their liability. If I

Understood Marilynn, but as JoJo stated, then it should have been sent to me to begin with, read, signed and sent back to them before the closing and before the documents for the closing had been sent to me.......I didnt even view it until the next day as it had been sent later in the evening.....

Had I been told I had to sign it before the closing, and agree to their terms, that would be a different story......

Reply by MW/VA on 7/13/12 4:28pm
Msg #426710

I agree with you on that point, of course. It's like they

are pressuring or coercing you into signing the agreement. I wouldn't be happy with that, either.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/13/12 5:01pm
Msg #426722

Not this company, but another, did the same to me several

years ago. After 3 mos. I signed as I just wanted my money. Then had to go through another wait period because it was mid cycle. I finally got paid. A bank in VA - can't remember who. If I remember at 3am, I will post...LOL

Reply by jnew on 7/13/12 3:09pm
Msg #426697

Re: Thank you Everyone

If I were you, Lisa, I would sign the contract, demand payment, receive payment and then when you are certain the check has cleared, send them a letter canceling the contract. In the meantime, if they call with a closing, tell them you are not available. If they don't pay under this scenario, it is doubtful that they were going to pay you regardless.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 7/13/12 8:23pm
Msg #426765

Re: Thank you Everyone

I never sign contracts, either. i had a company call me for a last-minute signing one time and when she sent the confirmation over, it had a signing service contract attached and a list of crap I needed to fax to her to do the signing.

I responded that I don't sign contracts and wouldn't provide anything other than a W9 and an invoice. I told her I needed her to agree in writing or else find someone else. She agreed. I did the signing, all was well.

Two weeks later, she calls and tells me I have to send a signed contract and copy of my d/l before she'll pay me. I reminded her that she agreed that I didn't have to do that. She hung up on me.

I got paid. After I got paid, I sent her an email and gave her my well-written opinion on her crappy business practices and phone manners. I also informed her that 'signor' is 'mister' in Spanish and that the borrower is a 'signer' not a 'signor'. My bad!
Thankfully, she has never called me again.

I learned long ago that last-minute signings will always be the ones that are a thorn in my side because I don't have time to review the paperwork closely enough. So, I simply say "No can do", not for any amount of money.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/13/12 4:04pm
Msg #426703

Your contract with the closing co. was what you agreed to ..

... when you accepted the assignment. Anything beyond that represents a modification, and you have the right to reject it. Unless execution of a long-term contract was part of your agreement, you are on firm ground to refuse.

Reply by ikando on 7/13/12 4:27pm
Msg #426709

Re: Your contract with the closing co. was what you agreed to ..

Hugh, I agree that it was a verbal contract between the parties and she performed her part. At this point they are in breach of contract (verbal) by adding something after the fact.

And another thing, they are being unjustly enriched by receiving payment for the service she performed and not paying her for those services.

I'm not an attorney, and this is not legal advice, but I've seen my share of this type thing and speak from experience.