Posted by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/3/12 11:31am
Msg #425458

DOT error (in notary section)

I certainly hope this is a Valid inquiry: I did not catch that the borrower's name was misspelled ONLY IN THE NOTARY section on last page of the DOT. Now, had I caught the lender misspelling during the signing, I would have (of course) simply had the borrower correct/initial . . . Or would I have?? Since the error is in MY area of the document (next time, don't do me any favors with pre-printing the name), technically I, as the NSA should be able to make the correction myself; but the sensitivity of DOTs - being recorded, and all - I just wonder . . .

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/3/12 11:33am
Msg #425459

Yes, YOU make corrections in the notary certs..

and IMO you do NOT need anyone's permission to make those corrections - that is your domain...

Signers/borrowers make corrections in the body of the docs - WITH the permission of the hiring party/lender/title..etc etc.

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/3/12 11:40am
Msg #425462

Re: Yes, YOU make corrections in the notary certs..

Got it: Body- THEM; notarial territory- ME. OK. I thank you, and have it on GOOD authority I'm sure (:

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/3/12 11:38am
Msg #425461

When the State/County is listed wrong, I correct/initial (lenders are sometimes less presumptuous when deciding whether to print location) ; but again, since it's the DOT (what I call "big dog" of lending, along with PN & TIL) . . . just not sure

Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 11:51am
Msg #425463

Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

important. Some will allow corrections & some won't.

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/3/12 12:05pm
Msg #425471

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

Will take BOTH good authorities into consideration here.
Also, I found this link with similar questions: http://www.mass.gov/governor/administration/legal/notary/notary-public-frequently-asked-questions.html

MA - attorney state

1. The venue on the document is already completed with the wrong state and county. My signer says I can't change it. What do I do?
The document should not be notarized if the notary is not allowed to correct the wording. The venue is part of the notarial certificate, and regardless of the type of notarization, its accuracy is the NOTARY'S responsibility. Because the document is supposed to indicate where the notarization was performed, if the venue has already been completed incorrectly, it may be corrected by lining through the error, making the correction, and initialing the change.

2. How do I correct a name that has been misspelled on the document and on the notarial certificate?
Only the document signer has authority to make any changes on the document; likewise, ONLY A NOTARY CAN CORRECT THE CERTIFICATE. When you are correcting a notarial certificate, simply put a line through the mistake with ink, write the correction above or beside it, and initial and date the correction.


Thank you Ladies for your quick responses!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/3/12 12:07pm
Msg #425472

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

IMP... it's not their directive to allow or disallow changes to the notarial certificate. That's entirely our responsibility. We can make whatever changes we see fit. I do it all that time and have never had an issue.

This is especially true when preprinted notarial certificates only have a partial name. Last week I had one where they wrote a man's name as (example) "C.D. Williams" -- well, the man in front of me, and his ID said "Charles Daniel Williams" -- and THAT is what I put on that line. He may very well be CD Williams, but Charles Daniel is the guy in front of me.

I always, always, write the name on the ID on the certificate. I don't care about matching names on the certificate to the document exactly. I care about certifying the person in front of me. What if "CD" really stood for "Caesar Dale" instead? If Charles Daniel were trying to pull a fast one, having his full name, rather than CD, would serve as evidence of fraud. If I left it as CD, there's no telling which guy it could have been.

Nope... I always do the full name... and I don't let Title and Escrow companies tell me how to fill out my own certificates. It's never been a problem for me. But then... I generally work for companies who know me well enough not to question me.

I really would prefer that companies not try to be "helpful" and just leave the notarial certificate alone. The majority of the time (especially in CA) they're done wrong anyway.

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/3/12 12:17pm
Msg #425475

Matching Names

Yes, I think that is a good point: I verify that the signature affidavits list the name on the docs if printed - if ID shows full Name, for instance and docs use M.I.

OH . . . heard back from Premium Title: Okay, yes you can initial the mistake due to it being a Notarial issue.



THanks!!

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/3/12 12:27pm
Msg #425477

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

The notary is responsible for the notary certificate, and can change a preprinted name if the notary deems it necessary. At the same time, the person receiving the document is free to reject it if the name on the notary certificate does not serve the needs of the person receiving the document. So contact is better to see if a name can be found that the notary considers lawful and the recipient considers useful.

It's impossible for a notary or anyone else to guarantee that there is no one else out there with the same name as the person in front of the notary. In many cases, it's impossible for the notary to determine if the person in front of the notary is the person who the recipient wants to sign the document, as opposed to some other person with the same name. I don't believe the notary has any business objecting to a shorter version of the name, despite the fact that the shorter version increases the pool of people that could have the same name.

While the notary has no duty to investigate whether a person with the right name is really the person the recipient wants to sign, the notary does have a duty to refuse to act if the notary just happens to come across information that indicates the person in front of him/her is the wrong person, despite having the right name. For example, Charlie Daniel Williams, according to the deed, took title in 1963 and the person in front of the notary has a driver's license that has the name Charlie Danial Williams, matches the would-be signer in all respects, but gives a date of birth of July 4, 1995.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/3/12 12:59pm
Msg #425482

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

I'm not even sure about that....our job is to ID the person in front of us. If a document isn't legal, it isn't legal and the notarization won't matter.

Yesterday I had something like this happen, actually. A man is retiring and selling his home to his son. He signed his name... but the name he signed didn't match his new, out of state ID. His first and last names were reversed. His entire life he's gone by Jerry Joseph Doe (example, of course). His CA ID, his SS card, everything has been as "Jerry Joseph" --- including the deed to the house he was selling. But when he recently moved out of state and got a new DL in that other state, they forced him to use the name as recorded on his birth certificate, "Joseph Jerry". He said it's been a real pain... he's gone by Jerry his whole life, not Joseph.

The poor guy pulled out everything he had to show me that he was known as "Jerry Joseph" -- SS card, Work ID, a copy of his old CA DL (the new state confiscated the original), etc. I had no doubt he was telling the truth... and his signature was clearly the same.

He offered all of that, but I was in a pickle because, legally, I could only identify him as "Joseph Jerry" as that's what his ID said... and it was the only ID I could accept (per CA law).

"the notary does have a duty to refuse to act if the notary just happens to come across information that indicates the person in front of him/her is the wrong person, despite having the right name."

If there is obvious proof of that, yes.... but how often does that actually happen? Rarely. In the case above, I was sure it was the same person, we just had a small issue because of his ID. In the end, he signed with the name on his ID, and the notarial certificate reflected that name on the ID. He said he'd take his chances and work it all out.



"I don't believe the notary has any business objecting to a shorter version of the name, despite the fact that the shorter version increases the pool of people that could have the same name."

I don't "object" to the name... I simply don't use it in my notarial certificates because it doesn't match the ID of the person in front of me. That's just a matter of policy that I have... the name on the ID is the name that goes on the certificate... that's it.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/3/12 1:28pm
Msg #425485

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

Marian in CA's policy of writing the name from the ID on the notarial certificate despite it being different from a name used consistently throughout the document will cause it to be rejected my many recorders of deeds. Looking around the web, there seem to be many recorders in Pennsylvania who publish a rule on the website that the name on the certificate must match the name printed below the grantor's signature. I'm surprised Marian hasn't been told a bunch of the deeds she notarized have been rejected by the recorder.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/3/12 4:30pm
Msg #425497

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

It has never happened - not once.

I'm not ID'ing a name on a piece of paper. I'm IDing the person signing a document.

Reply by linda/ca on 7/4/12 2:29am
Msg #425533

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

What VT Syrup said!

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/4/12 1:41pm
Msg #425555

Re: Call the hiring party with issues of names on docs--very

Some notaries write the name from the ID onto the ack/jurat and in their journals. Others write the name typed in the doc onto the ack/jurat but enter full ID name in their journals.

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/4/12 1:59pm
Msg #425556

Issues with names on docs

Insightful comments, Marian (and I will be printing this one for my future reference).

After spending much time in the mortgage business, I came to realize that at times there is a very fine line between doing your job as a "consultant" and practicing Law.

This is why I find it so hard to believe that there are still companies that insist that the NOTE be notarized. NOT within the powers of a notary to certify the contents of ANY document - Never! Spells legal suits, for sure. If my notarial obligations are not spelled out in a jurat, acknowledgment, true copy clause, can't and won't go beyond. Just your ID, Please. Thanks!


(boy, sometimes I'm sorry I started paralegal training; it's really hard to know which "hat" to wear sometimes and when to just shut up and follow the "law")

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/4/12 3:09pm
Msg #425557

Never seen a Note notarized. Who wants that? n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/5/12 12:53am
Msg #425586

Re: Never seen a Note notarized. Who wants that?

Once, a Wells Fargo loan from the Midwest had wording at the bottom of the last page requiring the notary to certify the contents of the note and its relationship to the mortgage (or something like that) and to use my seal, all of which are no-nos for a CA notary. A few weeks later, the TC called, hysterical because WF was yelling at them that I didn't do what WF wanted. I informed them that CA notaries are not allowed to just will-nilly stamp a document (I didn't use those exact words) and that what they were askng was beyond my authority in that we are not allowed to attest to the accuracy or validity of the contents of a note or any other document (that I know of) ... and that it sounded like they were asking for something that an attorney should be handling. Never heard back.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/5/12 1:10am
Msg #425587

This befuddles me

***This is why I find it so hard to believe that there are still companies that insist that the NOTE be notarized. NOT within the powers of a notary to certify the contents of ANY document***

How does notarizing a note -- regardless of whether it is necessary or is usually done -- constitute certifying the contents any more than a notary notarizing the signature on a deed?

Reply by Northern Virginia Loan Signing NVLS on 7/5/12 3:16am
Msg #425588

Re: This befuddles me (Certification of documents)

See New Thread, please!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/5/12 7:51am
Msg #425594

Re: This befuddles me....Hugh

It's not so much that they want the note "notarized" - they're asking that the notary CERTIFY that the note is the same one described in the mortgage. Some go so far as to state that the property is the same. IMO this is goes beyond the authorized duties of the notary. I feel it is more the responsibility of someone at title to certify that these two documents are correct, accurate and matching.

Real life story here: Woman refinanced her home - Note and mortgage and property address matched - HOWEVER the Exhibit A, Legal Description, was not the property where her home was located and where the mortgage was intended - it was on the vacant, unimproved lot next door that she owned.

So, if we go ahead and certify that the note and mortgage are the same, is it now our responsibility to also match the legal description to both to make sure the correct property is being encumbered? IMO that is waaayyy above my pay grade.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/5/12 11:46am
Msg #425610

Re: This befuddles me

Exactly, HH. WF was not seeking a notarized signature of the borrower on the note; they were requiring the notary to certify the contents of the note, match it up with a bunch of other stuff that would have required the notary to actually read the docs and make judgments about accuracy, contents, etc. This is generally out of the area of expertise for a notary. WF needs maybe a lawyer... or a TC... to do this?

In any case, then they demanded my seal on all of this, which is a basic no-brainer-no-can-do for a CA notary.