Posted by PegiT_MN on 7/9/12 12:54pm
Msg #426081
General Notary Work
After the post from last Friday in regard to General Notary Work and how much to charge in a state who's statutes say I can charge $1.00 per notarization, I decided to put my general notary work (all 2 transactions every couple of weeks of it) on hold until I did a lot more research. I called the Minnesota Secretary of State's Office this morning and told them the kind of requests I am getting from the general public as well as nursing homes and employment agencies. I told her that I was being given a lot of information on what to charge, as well as what the employment agencies are offering, but I was also aware that the Minnesota statute states that I am allowed to charge $1.00 per notarization. Her reply was that the statute is a very gray area and that I should consult an attorney for information on how much I should charge. That information didn't help me one bit. Well....it actually did help me.....it helped me make the decision that GNW in the state of Minnesota is not for me. If the "statute is a very gray area" as she stated, that means I am setting myself up for a lawsuit if for example one of those sovereign citizen types decides to challenge the law. "That notary republic charged me and my wife $25.00 to notarize all them there affidavits.......there was 19 of 'em and she should have only charged us $19.00. We are gonna sue her cuz she overcharged us." Well I may be exaggerating a bit.....but you get what I am trying to say.
So I mostly want to say thank you to all the posters from last Friday who posted on that thread and told me to do my research....some of the posts were not so nice.....some of them hurt my feelings......but I took what my fellow peers had to say to heart and did my research. You all posted a lot of very valuable information. I have come to the conclusion that I am going to stick to mortgage closings only. If someone needs something notarized.....they can go to the UPS store.
| Reply by MW/VA on 7/9/12 12:59pm
Msg #426084
While your state sets the fee for notarizations, does it allow extra charges for travel or administative fees? I'm always clear what the state fee for notarizations is in VA, but clearly state what my minimum fee is with travel. I'm not violating any laws that way.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/9/12 1:44pm
Msg #426091
I'm with Marilyn here. You need to know if your state regulated charging for services above the actual per signature fee.
In California, we're allowed to charge up to $10 per signature (we can charge less) for notarial service. We are allowed to charge additional fees for services above and beyond the actual notarial act such as travel, printing, courier, etc. That's because none of those services are regulated as notarial fees - they are totally separate.
Every single one of my receipts (and invoices) keep these distinctly separate and detailed because I do not ever want to be accused of overcharging. Each receipt has a line item that matches my journal entries for notarizations.
Here's what a typical receipt for GNW looks like for me, for a GNW visit:
Mobile Service Fee: $15.00 (1234 S. Desert Main Dr.)
Notarization Fees:
1. Acknowledgment: Penelope Q. Smith $10.00
2. Acknowledgment: John D. Smith $10.00
The mobile service fee varies by location, of course, and I always list the address or location where we met.
This way, if they want to complain about overcharging, I have a duplicate of the receipt. I've been considering having the people initial the receipt before I turn it over, too, just as a precaution.
Also, I always, always always tell people that they can avoid a mobile service fee by going to another notary directly, and I offer to give them a place (like a UPS store) if they'd prefer to avoid the service fee. Out where I am, the vast majority of people just have me come to them, because finding a notary in an office is pretty much impossible.
| Reply by Roger_OH on 7/9/12 2:20pm
Msg #426100
With acknowledgement to Hugh, who is likely one of the few on the board to know what it means, I think you may be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
Absolutely agree with the others that GNW can be pretty lucrative if you market yourself wisely and fill a niche in your area. If travel fees are not regulated in MN, then the fee is between you and the requester; just ensure that they agree to the total fee up front, and that your receipt breaks down notary fee vs signing fee.
We get $2 max in Ohio, but $30 travel for a car title or hospital visit for a POA adds up, and folks are happy to pay for that convenience, especially evenings, weekends, and holidays. You just have to get out there with a good website, business cards, chamber of commerce membership, Premier memberships on NotRot and the other major sites, etc. I average between 70-100 GNW calls a month, and like I said, it adds up.
I'd only add that you are a notary FIRST and a signing agent second; the office of notary public exists in every state for the primary purpose of defending the public trust, so I would suggest you use your commission for the reason the state granted it to you - to serve the public that needs your services!
All too many become a notary because it's a necessity to do loan signings, and forget the primary function we have of public service - a tradition that notaries worldwide have maintained for over 2,000 years.
Money aside, the intangible benefit comes from the many interesting people you meet, their gratitude, and the good feeling you get from knowing you have helped them.
If you intend to be a viable business entity, then treat it like one; invest in it! Make sure you have an EIN as well.
I also will refer calls to local colleagues if the location is too far, or I'm not available. Cultivate those relationships.
I have a serious problem with those that charge a "service fee" on top of the notarization for signers who come to their office - they'd best look closely at their state laws for overcharging. It's usually dealt with severely, often with loss of commission.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/9/12 6:05pm
Msg #426116
Great post, Roger.
As I see it, when most of notary statutes were written, the typical way of getting something notarized was to go into some storefront, whether it be a bank, mail place or whatever, with your document. The notary is in their place of business, so they just take a 5 minute interruption, execute the notarization, then go back to work.
Obviously, it doesn't work that way for a mobile service. I think we should be free to charge a reasonable fee for anything else we do to provide a service that isn't part of the actual notarization (like administering an oath, etc.) And I believe that few states regulate this.
Like Roger and others have said, as long as we clearly separate out the part that is regulated (and unless our state regulations say otherwise), we should be able to charge whatever people are willing to pay.
| Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 7/9/12 8:26pm
Msg #426151
folks are happy to pay for that convenience
"overcharging" may be subjective. It would be good to keep in mind what our handbook says, "actual AND Reasonable" expenses.
I know sometimes "service fee" may be used (maybe incorrectly, I don't know) interchangeably with travel; but I say the Travel IS the service; but if someone came to my home office (real estate is not an option for most in this area) for GNW at 7:30 on Sunday morning, I personally may not be able to justify anything more than the $2 oath, $5 acknowledgment, or whatever; but if this is the time most of my clients preferred, I would by necessity post a NO GNW sign outside my door, too!
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/10/12 2:30am
Msg #426208
Re: folks are happy to pay for that convenience
Regardless of where we met, if someone expected me to be awake, functioning and reasonably presentable (my requirement regardless of what they think), at 7:30 on a Sunday morning, that alone is justification for a service fee, imo!  I once had a bail bondsman want me to meet him and his client at midnight to get something notarized. We met at a 24 hour restaurant and you'd better believe I charged more than my usual travel fee for that distance! (I had done some personal GNW for the guy or I probably wouldn't have done it at all.)
Most people agree that it's "reasonable" to pay more for very late night or holiday work - and there may be other examples. We aren't "on call" workers who should be expected to be at people's beck and call any time of day or night. Again, I suspect most notary laws were written with walk-in businesses with posted business hours in mind.
Yes, we do need to be mindful of our individual state laws, but I agree that some common sense needs to be applied when interpreting them.
| Reply by jojo_MN on 7/9/12 2:22pm
Msg #426101
Also, are the clients coming to your home or place of business? If so, just the $1 per notarization. If you are traveling to another location, you can charge extra for travel fees. Remember, you are running a business and paying taxes on your services. Your services shouldn't be free. You are in this business to make money. Minimum wage is $7+ per hour and gas and auto expenses aren't cheap, so keep that in mind when setting your fees. Just make sure you keep the actual fees charged for notarizations separate. JMHO
| Reply by SharonMN on 7/9/12 3:11pm
Msg #426106
Peg, I almost never do any general notary work. When someone calls, I explain that the state fee is $1 and that they can find a notary at the county clerk's office as well as many banks, UPS/FedEx stores, law offices, etc. I also explain that I can travel to them for a travel fee, which is usually $25 (I won't do them if not nearby/convenient) plus the $1. People hardly ever want to pay that. Every once in a while if I'm feeling generous and planning to be home all evening, I will offer an appointment at my house, for which I charge the $1 only.
| Reply by Jack/AL on 7/9/12 3:25pm
Msg #426109
PegiT MN, I also quit doing General Notary Work
Alabama has very few pages of statutes (law) about our profession, without much in the way of examples or explanation. The Office of the Secretary of State is about as useful as the person you called. The allowed fees are also very small. Folks needing GNW too often want it right away, and often don't know for certain what they need, and know that they were once able to get such stuff done for free at their bank. It's just not worth the hassle for very few dollars. I just refer them to a local Notary Public who is a paralegal, works in the office of one or more attorneys, and wants such bothers. To all of you who now feel compelled to chastise me for not doing a better job of serving the public, don't waste your time, for I'll not read the admonishment, will not reply to you, and will not worry about you or your opinion. Cheers.....
| Reply by bsylade on 7/9/12 10:19pm
Msg #426183
I used to have people come to my home for notary work. Then something went wrong on a refi, back when they were doing all of the crazy arms and then people started having problems. They came to my house looking for paper work and saying I am the cause of their problems. So I will meet in a public place, a library or someplace but not my home.
| Reply by PegiT_MN on 7/10/12 10:46am
Msg #426228
That is great to know Sharon......someone from my state who has to follow the same rules I do.....and knowing how you are doing it. I am definitely not going to worry about when I get calls for general notary work anymore. I am going to focus my attention on all the great title companies and signing companies out there and direct the general notary calls to the local UPS store. Thanks Sharon for responding. You're in the northern part of the twin cities......right? I'm down here in Apple Valley. We will have to connect sometime because I get calls sometimes for your area and I don't go up that way. Would like to have someone I could refer the business to.
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