Posted by Bobg on 7/12/12 12:45pm
Msg #426519

Now what should I do?

Did a signing yesterday with fax back to Nations Direct. The deed was for a married person as sole and separate and had spouses name on it so had spouse sign, too. The rest of the title docs (riders and addendums) only had the married persons name on them so only had that person sign. ND wants spouses sig on all title docs including RTC. I say all names should have been on docs they wanted signed by both. What do you think? Of couse, ND won't pay to make another trip to get sigs.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 7/12/12 1:00pm
Msg #426521

Go get the signatures or you won't get paid at all? Maybe stop working for a company that pays so little and doesn't provide you with instructions as to which forms need to be signed by non-borrowing spouse? Called them when you saw the additional name on the Deed to see what else you might need to do?

I have handled quite a few of these, and NONE had the non-borrowing spouse's name on any of the other docs that needed to be signed by N-BS... but I have a list of docs that should be signed in this situation. I always call the company that assigned the signing to me to verify what ones should be signed by N-BS. Some don't want HUD signed but all want RTC and others signed. NEVER the note, as that is only for borrower.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/12/12 1:15pm
Msg #426524

I rarely take anything from ND...fee generally not enough...but just completed one this week just as you described and I do agree that their 'instructions' leave much to be desired. However, who signs what was in the instructions I got...tho' I had to plow thru repetitions and conflicting info to figure it out.

It's your call as to whether or not to make the 2nd trip for a few signatures and get paid or just not go and not get paid at all.

I will never do another one of these. It was that messy.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/12/12 1:23pm
Msg #426527

Guess I'll be blunt. I suspect Nations Direct hired you because you were cheap. If Nations Direct had been willing to pay the freight for an experienced signing agent, the agent more than likely would have recognized <during the signing> that there was a problem and called for guidance.

Nations Direct instead chose to go with a notary who was willing to accept their low-rent fees. ND should have to bear the consequences, not you. On the other hand, you chose to work for a low-rent company, and if ND refuses to pay you because you didn't go out free to correct the problem, then you have to confront the consequences of that decision.

Sometimes, things do come together.

Reply by NJDiva on 7/12/12 2:56pm
Msg #426532

Hugh said it nicely (literally...lol)! I agree and concur

too (was that redundant? lol)! These are the types of companies, IMO, that are in business because they keep getting their closings covered by newbies, inexperienced, desperate, or the gullible type that want to give the benefit of the doubt (nothing wrong with being a kindhearted, generous, trusting soul, but at the expense of your pocket and business? It's probably not the time to be. As I've shared, business is business.)

If we would collectively stop working for them (in my opinion), maybe, just maybe, they would stop preying on those poor unknowing victims(??), go out of business and therefore their business could possibly get to a PAYING, reputable company.

I love when people come on and share that which could easily have been avoided if only they would have taken advantage of an incredibly important tool which we are lucky enough to have here on NR (wow, that was a loooong sentence...lol.) SC. That is, assuming they KNEW about NR and SC. There are, I would presume, probably hundreds (an underestimation?) that have no clue about this site. It's a hard lesson to learn for sure. I know this because I've had to learn the hard way too. I'm not above you or any better.

So as far as what I would do in the OP's situation, I would do whatever it took to make it right-that is if it was MY error. I guarantee my work. I would learn my lesson (those of us in "spousal states" should KNOW what doc's need to be signed, directions or no directions. Riders and RTC’s ALWAYS get signed by the NBS.) and take advantage of the lesson. I would venture to say you’ll know which ones are NBS doc’s now for sure (I would hope.)

However, with that said and in all fairness, ALL title doc’s are not always (dare I say seldom? IME) signed. So that is something that I may not take responsibility for.

(For those whose eyes get offended from full caps, it’s only for emphasis, not because I’m yelling.)

I sincerely wish you success in getting paid and deciding what works best for you and your business structure. I hope this turns out in your favor. I have no doubt not a one of us on this board have been in this business and not had to learn the hard way.

Good luck.

PS And please stop working for low balling, thieving companies. But if you do, at least don't allow them to lowball YOU. Some people on this site get REALLY offended by it. ..lmao (ok, so I'm guilty of getting exasperated by it.)

Reply by gowithn/TN on 7/12/12 3:57pm
Msg #426534

Re: Now what should I do? Agree w/Hugh! n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 7/12/12 4:11pm
Msg #426537

Claudia! xo n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/12/12 7:59pm
Msg #426580

Adding: ND does pay a decent fee when desperate. n/m

Reply by bfnotary on 7/12/12 4:27pm
Msg #426538

Hmm. I had a post this week about low balling companies and I get chewed out by some of you that are posting that the OP should not work for this low ball company. How ironic. And I did say some not all Have a good week everyone. Just had to add this post.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 7/12/12 4:37pm
Msg #426541

BOBg- I agree with you. They cannot expect you to do something that is not in their instructions. Especially seeing as how the spouse going off title, per the grant deed...Is that what it was? They should have put the names on the docs if they wanted signatures, its not for you to decide, no matter how experienced you are.
I suppose before the signing you could have clarified this with your hiring entity, so there would have been no misunderstanding.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/12/12 4:47pm
Msg #426543

In answer to your question ....



"...what should I do?"

IMMEDIATELY dump ND, remove them from your life, forgive yourself for being such a dunderhead to have worked for them to begin with. Put them in your rear view mirror, never take another call from them, forget this signing ever happened, eat the fee on this job (that means DO NOT go out for free to obtain these baloney signatures they're trying to make you feel responsible for), leave ND and all their lo-pay, no-pay crap behind and move on.

To "move on" means to begin a new day where you value yourself more as a person and as a loan-signing agent. Judging by the sound of your post, you know what you are doing as an NSA. Find a higher class of clientele that will treat you with some semblance of humanity, a foreign concept to ND and their type. You can do it. You won't ever regret it. I guarantee it!

Reply by jba/fl on 7/12/12 4:58pm
Msg #426551

I agree. Let. It. Go.

Either way, you have already lost on this one.

Reply by CJ on 7/12/12 5:13pm
Msg #426555

Is Global their sister company?

ND and Global are on my "do not answer" list. I have had too many issues with both of them in the past to EVER work for them again.

If you are experienced (which you are now), you would have known that those who sign title, must also sign riders. The riders are PART of the DOT. Also, non-borrowering owners always sign RTCs. The MINUTE you see a problem with this, you need to CALL someone. You can't give advice to the borrower, but you can let the person who hired you know that you think something is amiss. Better safe than sorry.

If it were me, I would go back and get the other signatures, (that's how I am), but I would NEVER work for ND again.

Reply by CJ on 7/12/12 5:18pm
Msg #426556

P.S.

I just re-read the question. I see that I misundestood. If it is "married as sole and separate property", I can't figure why the spouse was on anything anyway. I have NEVER seen that. You are correct, they would not have had to sign the RTC either if they didn't own it. I agree with Golden Girl: it is not your fault. Once this is in the past, just right them off like a bad ex.

Reply by NJDiva on 7/12/12 5:25pm
Msg #426557

oops, I think I misread too. If I did, I stand corrected if

I gave incorrect info. Never too proud to eat crow and admit imperfection.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 7/12/12 8:24pm
Msg #426584

Maybe Not........Isn't CA a spousal state?

If California is a spousal state, borrower can't hold property as married with sole ownership or whatever that verbage was.

Minnesota is a spousal state and both parties are signing.

I did one for a property in North Dakota and spouse did not have to sign because it was an investment property. North Dakota allowed borrower to hold property as marrked with sole ownership or whatever the correct verbage is.

This sounds like something that may need a little more research.

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/12/12 11:50pm
Msg #426608

Re: Maybe Not........Isn't CA a spousal state?

Interspousal Grant Deed can have one spouse give up their rights in Ca so yes you can have a vesting of Married with sole and separate property.

here is the form http://www.chicagotitleconnection.com/images/Forms/Interspousal%20Grant%20Deed.pdf

They are use full if one spouse has credit problems and the other is golden.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/12/12 6:41pm
Msg #426568

Ditto. Also, there probably shouldn't be any spousal

signatures in that file. The only scenario I can think of would be if there was a grant deed, changing title on the property from married to "sole & separate property".
Other than that, what about "sole & separate property" don't they understand???? LOL

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/12/12 6:58pm
Msg #426571

Was this a Deed or a Deed of Trust? n/m

Reply by PegiT_MN on 7/12/12 8:18pm
Msg #426582

May I add my two cents in here?

My suggestion to Bobg would be.......you went out on a closing for a company that doesn't pay alot. I agree with Hugh that the reason ND sent you out on said closing in the first place is because you were one of the few notaries that would accept their low offer. Not too many title companies and signing companies are going to hold your hand and give you too much guidance when you are out in the field, as they take for granted that you know your stuff and shouldn't be having to ask questions. So you made a mistake. Chalk it up as a learning experience. I bet you won't be making that same mistake in the future. Learn if your state is a spousal state and which documents need to be signed by both parties in a refinance transaction. I know that Minnesota is a spousal state and it is "one to buy and two to refi or sell". I know that when I show up for a closing and a borrower is married, his or her spouse is going to be signing the TIL, mortgage, any riders, right to cancel, addendum of amount financed (only if it is in the package), and a signature/name affidavit. If his/her name is not on those documents, I am going to draw a line and print the name below it and have that non borrowing spouse sign it.

I would be calling Nations Direct, let them know that I did not know the non-borrowing spouse rules for my state, and since I made the mistake I would be more than happy to go out and fix that for them free of charge. I would then be making sure I got as much training as I could in regard to loan signings, and then you can start marketing yourself to higher paying title and signing companies because you have the experience and don't let those little mistakes slip through.

Good luck to you Bobg.....we all had to start somewhere.......and once you make a mistake......you can bet you won't be making that same one again.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/12/12 9:08pm
Msg #426591

Take back your two cents

Bobg did absolutely nothing wrong. (Except maybe not calling ND and asking why the heck the spouse's name was on the Deed at all? Which it obviously shouldn't have been.)

If property is held sole and separate, the spouse would not be signing ANYTHING. That's the thing about S&S signings - the spouse shouldn't even be at the signing, IMO, and often is not. It's none of his/her business what's going on, let alone be "required" to sign anything.

If the spouse has no claim to title, he/she would sign NOTHING - no loan docs, no title/escrow docs. Sole and separate means that a Grant Deed or Quit Claim Deed has already been signed by the spouse. This goes way beyond "knowing the nonborrowing spouse rules for my state" and all that other blather you chastised him for. Not only is the spouse a nonborrower in this case, he/she is a nonowner. The fault is the loan processor's and also title's, for not catching the mistake.

If I held sole and separate property and some notary or low-brow SS like ND is telling me that my spouse needs to sign all this stuff, I'd be on the phone to my LO telling them to get a reality check.

Your scathing dressing down of Bobg is completely out of line and has no basis in fact.

Reply by CJ on 7/12/12 10:57pm
Msg #426603

Re: Take back your two cents

It's not our job to know the spousal signing requirements for our state. I don't recall that being anywhere in the notary handbook or on the test. We might happen to know, but that's not technically our job. If I made the decision to draw a line on a document and tell the borrower to sign, that sounds like making a legal decision to me. I think if I drew a line and told someone to sign, I could be held responsible for messing up the docs.

Even if I DID know for fact that the signture lines are incorrect, it is my job to CALL someone and get further instrutions. They can tell me to draw a line, or they might decide to stop the signing and re-draw the docs. Or they can tell me to just sign the way it's typed.

If the notary had them sign where their name was typed, and not have them sign where their name was not typed, then in my eyes, she did exactly what she was hired to do. (But I do think it would have been helpful to call. If ND does not pick up the phone, then it's ND who dropped the ball, not me.)

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/13/12 12:29am
Msg #426611

Re: Take back your two cents

and keep the change?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/13/12 4:22am
Msg #426619

Re: Take back your two cents

I agree with part of what you said and disagree with other parts. First, this is not a notary issue, it's a signing agent issue that has nothing to do with notarizing, so there would be no reason for our handbook to address this issue. I agree, though, that making a decision to draw a line and have someone sign is probably UPL (although I have actually done that myself under different circumstances) and further instructions should be requested.

BTW, I agree with GOLDGIRLl/CA on this one. If I saw "sole and separate", my expectation would be not have them sign anything. Actually, I did run into one not too long ago where the lender wanted the spouse to sign certain docs anyway. That was something that triggered a phone call and a whole bunch of questions. I don't think they should have had the spouse sign anything, but I ended up just following their directions. So in the situation mentioned above, unless there was no way I was going to reach someone when the issue was discovered, I'd probably be asking why that spouse was signing anything at all.

And for clarification, the only time I would consider drawing a line and having someone sign a doc without a signature line would be in a situation where, for example, there is a non-borrowing spouse on title, but that person didn't have a signature line on a DOT or an RTC or TIL.

This issue is a classic one where posters and readers need to be aware that laws vary greatly from state to state, even if they might have the same kind of labels (e.g. "spousal" or "community property", etc.) So be please careful about making recommendations to questions like this if you're from a different state than the poster - or about taking advice from people different states. [Excepted from this, of course, are the seasoned pros among us who really DO know what they're talking about, often across state lines. ]