Posted by FGX/NJ on 7/3/12 8:45am
Msg #425428
On Line Notarization
Look what is back!!!!
https://notary.signnow.com/
I suspect they will try to use Va. electronic Notaries.
We threw them out of NJ last year
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/3/12 8:46am
Msg #425429
Yep...saw them posting elsewhere...
They may well have an open door in VA with the new law that's been passed allowing webcam notarizations. I know in FL they're still illegal.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 8:52am
Msg #425431
Well there's the law & how they will attempt to twist it.
It will be interesting to see how many notaries actually get involved in the electronic process. I'm not going to do it, and know many who won't. I guess we'll have to wait to see how it plays out & what repercussions there will be.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:07am
Msg #425432
Here's an excerpt on "Satisfactory Evidence"....
SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE OF THE SIGNER’S IDENTITY ELECTRONIC
NOTARIZATION
(§ 47.12)
Remote notarization requires a very high threshold for identity assurance. Not only MUST there
be a video and audio feed, the notary public will be REQUIRED to assure the identity of the
signer by one of the following three options:
1) Personal knowledge. This is already allowed under Virginia law. Simply put, if
the notary knows the signer, that will satisfy this requirement.
2) Reliance on prior inperson
identity proofing by a third party such as an
employer, a law firm, or a bank. Otherwise known as antecedent proofing, this
security standard relies upon a prior trust relationship having been created
between the signer and a third party. This standard is gaining wide application in
electronic commerce.
3) The signer has a digital certificate that is authenticated either by (i) biometrics or
(ii) a Personal Identity Verification (PIV) or PIVI
card issued in conformance
with strict government standards from the National Institute of Standards and
Technology. The use of PIV and PIVI
cards is becoming more prevalent in the
public and private sectors. This is as trustworthy and reliable a security standard
as can be found currently. The federal government uses this standard in issuing
identifications to federal employees and government contractors as well for
trusting the identity of emergency first responders
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:09am
Msg #425433
The entire new Handbook is available on the VA Secretary of
the Commonwealth site for anyone who is interested in reviewing the new electronic notarization aspect of the law.
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/3/12 9:15am
Msg #425435
Wait, is Electronic Notarization and Webcam Notarization
the same? It seems there is no way the webcam notarization can be performed based on the criteria necessary to notarize electronically.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:23am
Msg #425438
There's nothing about webcam notarization being legal!!!! n/m
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/3/12 9:32am
Msg #425441
AMEN SISTA...LOL...I know that, and you know that, but um,
er, echem, I'm not so sure that THEY know that!! lmao Or, maybe they do!!!!!
"There's nothing about webcam notarization being legal!!!"
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Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/3/12 5:33pm
Msg #425501
Ditto in Oregon. Personal appearance = in the flesh. n/m
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:15am
Msg #425434
I went to the website & it's talking about electronic
signatures. I don't see anything about notarization of those signatures.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/3/12 9:16am
Msg #425436
From their webpage:
http://notarynow.signnow.com/security/
Look under their Frequently Asked legal Questions.
They give a link to the SB 827 and HB 2318 bills.
But:
http://www.nationalnotary.org/resources_for_notaries/notary_law_updates/virginia/house_bill_2318/senate_bill_827.html
"Signers of these eNotarizations must accept the courts and law of Virginia as the choice of venue for the resolution of any disputes arising from these eNotarizations"
I believe they are using VA electronic notaries to do this.
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Reply by FGX/NJ on 7/3/12 9:21am
Msg #425437
Yes they are using Va. Notaries.
http://notarynow.signnow.com/virginia-notary/?gclid=CNLM_-_Y_bACFUXc4AodfHccDQ
Wonder how they think they can meet ID requirements of 47.12?
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/3/12 9:24am
Msg #425439
We should all report them to:
The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:32am
Msg #425442
Where to report, that the dilemna.......
I would like to file a complaint against a notary:
Anyone who wishes to make a formal complaint against a notary public for incorrectly performing a notorial act must submit in writing a brief description detailing the complaint and a copy of the notarized document in question. Once the complaint is received the notary department will determine if a violation has been committed. If the complaint is deemed valid, the notary will receive a letter of warning advising them of the improper notarization. The notary is also sent a letter of acknowledgement to sign and return to our office.
This office is not able to investigate any possible wrongdoings by a Virginia notary, nor are we able to determine a conflict of interest. Please contact an attorney or the Commonwealth’s Attorney’s office to obtain information for any possible Virginia Code violations or legal issues.
For more information contact:
Jennifer Crown, Notary Director
Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth
P.O. Box 1795
Richmond, Virginia 23218-1795
(804) 692-2536
(804) 371-0017 – fax
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/3/12 9:28am
Msg #425440
"Wonder how they think they can meet ID requirements of 47.12?"
Guess they will have to have their employer, a law firm or a bank standing by to verify their identity. LOL
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:46am
Msg #425443
Thanks for this link. I just sent an email to the Gov. &
forwarded the link. I'll let you know if I get a response.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 9:52am
Msg #425445
P.S. Thanks FGX/NJ for lighting a fire for me on this one! n/m
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Reply by FGX/NJ on 7/3/12 12:31pm
Msg #425480
Re: P.S. Thanks FGX/NJ for lighting a fire for me on this one!
I was sure they would try this when the VA law took effect.
A while back they tried to do this using the Mariana Islands.
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Reply by Jessica Ward on 7/3/12 11:07am
Msg #425451
"Construction Contractor Services" called me last week
This outfit (name may not be exact) called me asking for e-notarization last week. I could tell if he was asking for a "webcam notarization" or if he wanted a truly electronic notarization. I explained to him that it's Washington, and that's against the law. He asked me several times "then who might I call that might do that." I must have told him three times that in WA a notarization is in person, on paper, but he kept asking who else to call.
I finally told him to call the the state penitentiary. Because it's against the freaking law!! Any notaries who might do that could likely be found there.
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/3/12 11:14am
Msg #425454
ROTFL LMAO!!! Good one Jessica!!! n/m
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 12:01pm
Msg #425468
I'm surprised NNA isn't jumping all over this. Electronic
notarization, where it is legal, has nothing to do with webcam notarizations. Those aren't legal anywhere to the best of my knowledge.
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Reply by Jessica Ward on 7/3/12 12:05pm
Msg #425470
Yes, I understand this. I just wasn't sure what he wanted
He didn't seem to know either quite frankly, but either way, it wasn't going to fly here in WA.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/3/12 4:45pm
Msg #425499
They are now, Marilynn...the new law in VA
legalizes webcam notarizations in VA...
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 7:10pm
Msg #425512
I haven't seen that anywhere. Where does it say that? n/m
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Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/3/12 7:44pm
Msg #425514
Re: I haven't seen that anywhere. Where does it say that?
Page 9 of the 2011 handbook:
REMOTE OR ONLINE ELECTRONIC NOTARIZATION
Effective July 1, 2012, the Commonwealth of Virginia will be the first state to authorize a
principal signer to be in a remote location and have a document notarized electronically. Remote electronic notarization incorporates strict federal standards for determining the identity of the signer and requires the notary to keep a record of the video conference for each notarial act, which is not required in paper notarizations. Accordingly, protections against fraud with this method are much stronger than that afforded by the current paper process. It is important to remember that the Commonwealth of Virginia already use video conferencing in courts of law, the standards for which this law expressly crossreferences.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 7:59pm
Msg #425516
Thanks, I admit I didn't have time to read it through. n/m
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/4/12 10:21am
Msg #425545
That was the whole point of the bill and the new law
that went into effect 7/1/2012
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/3/prweb8257226.htm
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/4/12 10:23am
Msg #425546
Also see thread here
Msg #378161
Also search here - many discussed AND many of us wrote to the VA governor asking him not to sign due to the fraud potential. Don't you guys remember this?
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/4/12 5:49am
Msg #425537
Linda, I see that Electronic Notarizations are noted,
not webcam. Not so sure that it's one in the same.
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/4/12 7:43am
Msg #425541
Re: Linda, I see that Electronic Notarizations are noted,
According to the Virginia law that lists what a notary or electronic notary is prohibited from doing:
"A notary shall not:
"1. Notarize a document if the signer is not in the presence of the notary at the time of notarization, unless (i) in the case of an electronic notarization, satisfactory evidence of the identity of the signer is established in accordance with § 47.1-2 or..."
(Read it at http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+47.1-15)
The definitions chapter of the notary law defines satisfactory evidence of identity, in part, as "In the case of an electronic notarization, "satisfactory evidence of identity" may be based on video and audio conference technology..."
Read it at http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+47.1-2
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/3/12 11:14am
Msg #425453
Re: On Line Notarization: Documents
I looked at the notary manual and FAQ at the official VA notary site:
http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/Notary/notary.cfm?CFID=15764956&CFTOKEN=a0bcd966c7d6f2eb-4D738E1D-B190-3181-0E75A33476DBC9BC
I noticed there are no recent changes; the notary manual is from 2009 and "Frequently Asked Questions About Becoming a Virginia Electronic Notary" is undated but refers to July 1, 2012 as a future event.
In my view, the manner in which the State of Virginia has (failed to) educate notaries about this law shows gross incompetence and stupidity. Or, perhaps the Virginia notary authorities deep in their hearts are opposed to the law and intend to sabotage it by failing to educate notaries.
Example 1: The FAQ says "However, a signer requesting an electronic notarization may also be identified by:...or by use of an interoperable Personal Identity Verification card that is designed, issued, and managed in accordance with the specifications published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Federal Information Processing Standards Publication 201-1, "Personal Identity Verification (PIV) of Federal Employees and Contractors," and supplements thereto or revisions thereof."
So I used Google to find the FIPS 201-1, and found this:
csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/fips201-1/FIPS-201-1-chng1.pdf
I tried reading it. I worked for two decades as an electronics engineer. I wrote tons of software that was used to design integrated circuits for a huge electronics company. I estimate it would take me a week to get a general understanding of what this document is about, and to understand it at the nuts-and-bolts level would be a full-time career. Go ahead and read it. See what you think.
Example 2: The FAQ says "However, a signer requesting an electronic notarization may also be identified by:...or by use of an interoperable Personal Identity Verification card..." The law, which may be read at
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+cod+47.1-2
says the same thing. So the card isn't just a driver's license. It's a card issued to a federal government employee or contractor. It has to be "interoperable". But the law does not say if the interoperable feature must be used by the notary. Must the appearer run the card through a card reader that meets FIPS 201-1 and transmit the result of the card scan to the notary in a manner that meets FIPS 201-1 and be processed by software on the notary's computer that meets FIPS 201-1? Or does it suffice for the appearer to hold the card up to the web cam. If holding up to the web cam is sufficient, how can the notary know that the card is really interoperable? Maybe the appearer got fired and his card has been deactivated? What a ____________ law (you can think of a suitable word to put in the blank).
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Reply by NJDiva on 7/3/12 11:18am
Msg #425456
I can think of a few words suitable to put in the blank!!!
"Maybe the appearer got fired and his card has been deactivated? What a ____________ law (you can think of a suitable word to put in the blank)."
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/3/12 11:25am
Msg #425457
Re: On Line Notarization: Documents
Haven't read the whole post yet but want to address this:
"In my view, the manner in which the State of Virginia has (failed to) educate notaries about this law shows gross incompetence and stupidity. Or, perhaps the Virginia notary authorities deep in their hearts are opposed to the law and intend to sabotage it by failing to educate notaries"
If you think THIS is incompetence, you should have listened to the live-stream of the hearings on this bill...would have made your hair curl..
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 11:59am
Msg #425467
"I noticed there are not recent changes; the notary
manual is from 2009". No, a new Notary Handbook is on the website for July 1, 2012.
You can see my posts above.
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/3/12 12:14pm
Msg #425474
Re: "I noticed there are not recent changes; the notary
I found this one:
http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/Notary/NotaryHandbook.pdf
dated July 1, 2011 on the front cover. I can't find a 2012 handbook.
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Reply by MikeC/TX on 7/3/12 4:57pm
Msg #425500
Re: On Line Notarization: Documents
"I tried reading it. I worked for two decades as an electronics engineer. I wrote tons of software that was used to design integrated circuits for a huge electronics company. I estimate it would take me a week to get a general understanding of what this document is about, and to understand it at the nuts-and-bolts level would be a full-time career."
There's your problem - your former career required the use of logical thinking, which can be a severe detriment when trying to read any document published by the Feds...
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Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/3/12 5:46pm
Msg #425503
Re: On Line Notarization: Documents
How you read a federal document depends on your occupation.
Federal elected official: If I defy the document, will I get caught before the next election?
Corporate employee: If I defy the document, will I get caught before I
(a) get my annual bonus
(b) get promoted out of this hellhole
(c) get hired by a different company in a more lucrative position?
Federal employee: if I don't bother to read the document, will my boss notice?
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Reply by ikando on 7/3/12 6:02pm
Msg #425504
Re: On Line Notarization: Documents
Your analogy is too true. Perhaps that's why government documents are written using circular logic and many subheadings.
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/3/12 12:02pm
Msg #425469
I encourage every VA notary to contact the Governor
about the webcam notarization issue. IMO we have a responsibility to protect our profession.
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