Posted by bpn/NY on 7/9/12 10:06am
Msg #426060

online notarization

http://blog.signnow.com/2012/07/08/the-struggle-to-make-online-notarization-legal/

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/9/12 10:13am
Msg #426061

Yeah..here we go again with his blather... n/m

Reply by Karla/OR on 7/9/12 11:37am
Msg #426067

Interesting! So is competition the main objection against on-line notarizations or am I missing something?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/9/12 11:49am
Msg #426069

It's illegal in every state but Virginia. n/m

Reply by Karla/OR on 7/9/12 12:01pm
Msg #426073

Re: It's illegal in every state but Virginia.

Beyond being illegal, are there other reasons why notaries do not want this to be legal in their state? Just trying to get the big picture. Thanks.

Reply by FGX/NJ on 7/9/12 12:30pm
Msg #426077

Re: It's illegal in every state but Virginia.

A legal on line Notarization done by a Va. Notary would be valid in all states.
The person appearing via web cam dose not even have to be located in Va.
They of course woul have to meet the ID requirements of 47.12 of the Va. law.
IMHO

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/9/12 2:01pm
Msg #426094

Re: It's illegal in every state but Virginia.

I don't favor legalization of this, not so much due to the lack of personal appearance as other factors. While lack of personal appearance is a risk factor, some of the things that could be done electronically could make a well-crafted web notarization law carried out by knowledgeable and diligent notaries produce notarizations that are no more risky than present notarization. But that isn't what will happen. What will happen will be another dive-to-the-bottom-of-the-bottom-of-the-barrel. Considering signing in general, and not just notarization, we settle for copies and faxes rather than originals, even though original handwritten signatures are more secure, because it's cheap and easy. Also, signature pages are rarely securely attached to the rest of the document due to convenience and the need to make copies. Then it was typed names in email instead of handwriting. Then it was mouse click instead of any writing. Web notarization will be the same. Notaries will sleep through a 3-hour class (if that) when a 1-week class is what is needed to bring someone truly up-to-speed, and that's for people who are pretty sharp to begin with. Web notaries will probably be the hamburger-flippers of the legal world. The computer systems that get deployed will be the minimum the law allows, or worse. Computer savvy crooks will find the weaknesses and post them on hacking websites. In cities like New York only the crooks have guns; in the world of web notarization only the crooks will really understand how the systems work.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/9/12 12:33pm
Msg #426078

Re: It's illegal in every state but Virginia.

First, even in VA, this 'on-line' notarization is based upon very strict and not-so-easy parameters to ID the person (look up the law...references probably here) and read it. The easiest is 'personal knowledge' AND...other criteria. But it gets way more complicated after that.

Our main objection is lack of "personal appearance by signer". Seeing someone on a webcam doesn't meet that criteria anywhere. Waving your DL in front of a camera doesn't exactly work to 'verify' the ID for us.

Working from memory here (because I don't really care--not in VA), the ID accepted for VA is a specific, not-easy ID-verification 'process' that must be done before any notarization takes place--and was generally intended for co-to-co repetitive things. But, once the camel's nose is under the tent~~

While the reason for this new law may be valid--and even 'good' for the purposes intended--which was not GNW or loan signings or any one time deal; the co. in question simply ignores that aspect.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/9/12 12:57pm
Msg #426082

It will be an interesting "test case" for this type of thing

I'll be interested to see how it plays out. While the new law for electronic notarization is very specific, I think it will open the door to all sorts of twisted interpretations. That won't be smart, because VA lawmakers will go after anyone abusing it, I'm sure.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/9/12 1:48pm
Msg #426093

Re: It will be an interesting "test case" for this type of thing

The law is so badly written, it will be tough to figure out if someone is abusing it.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 7/9/12 1:24pm
Msg #426089

What a jerk. That guy obviously doesn't understand

the point of notarization and is completely drowning in the idea of "Waaaaaah. Going to a notary is soooooooo inconvenient!"

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/9/12 2:14pm
Msg #426099

"but I have yet to meet a notary who is really well versed in notary and electronic signature law..."

What a jerk. He clearly hasn't taken the time to meet some intelligent notaries, then.

He's rails on the Sate of California in his post, and wow...I could go on for a long time about each of his points.

Here's the thing - they are OPERATING out of California. The guy is NOT a California notary so he, himself, doesn't even understand notarial law. How dare he tell notaries that they don't understand notarial law when he isn't a notary himself. I checked just now, too, as I was writing this post.

I handle electronic signatures all the time, even notarize them with an electronic seal. BUt still... you darn well bet that the person is sitting right in front of me and not via webcam. He doesn't grasp the idea of personal appearance when it comes to identity fraud. It's just that simple.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/9/12 4:51pm
Msg #426113

Couldn't agree more! n/m