Posted by Sandy Maupin on 5/31/13 1:07pm
Msg #471835

Considering Profession

I have been researching and trying to do my due diligence about what it takes to be a public notary. The education required, the startup cost, projected income, operating expenses but I am still torn on exactly what the right path is. I am hoping I can share the information I have collected so far and professionals here would be willing to give me their input, correct me, or just tell me I’m way off base…

First I am a resident of Washington State. The requirements for my state are:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/notary/nrequirements.html
Be at least 18 years of age. Be able to read and write English. Live in Washington State
Or live in Idaho or Oregon while employed regularly in Washington. Have a $10,000
Surety bond from an insurance company or bonding company.

Although it is not required to complete an education course the state has a list of approved education providers. http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/notary/ncourses.html I believe this is where a lot of my confusion started, I researched these sites and was going to go with NNA, but luckily through my research I was lead to Notary Rotary. I have been reading and reading on the board here and from my conclusion people here are not impressed with the educational courses, business practices or information given out by XYZ. So I have been researching other training options, and would appreciate opinions and advice in this area.

• Kathy Poston’s book, Professional Signing Agent Training Manual (which I believe is the book offered here at Notary Rotary) https://www.notaryrotary.com/store/order.asp?ssid=&cat=0&subcat=0&vm=0&fid=110656&ProductID=162&stampstatecd=WA&statecd=**
• Laura Vestanen’s book on developing non-loan business, and she is from WA state. http://www.professionalnotary.com/Marketing_books_Notaries.html
• Notary Rotary’s Public 101 Course, but when I enter my zip code it says that the self study course is not available in my state?
• In the famous message #33325 it refers to a Monica’s book (AMR Services, Inc) from the research I can do I can’t find the book and seems she was frowned upon for soliciting money.
• A book by Victoria Ring was also mentioned in message #33325 which I cannot seem to locate, and only information I find about her was negative.
• A training course thru www.wildsignings.com was recommended in the same post, again I can’t locate this company and the link is bad.

So the information I have come up with as far as training is even though it is not required by my state, training is a must for this profession. From my research I believe the best training tool I could use would be Kathy Poston’s book sold here on Notary Rotary and possibly the training course offered by NotRot but for some reason I am unable to access that from my state. My confusion lies in though the training and the organization themselves, XYZ seems to be frowned upon, yet it seems to be a necessary evil. From my understanding signing companies are asking for BGC & certification from XYZ, is this correct? I have been trying to form a business plan, laying out what the expenses would be to start up a Notary business, but am confused on which direction is best to go. As far as expense wise and what I believe signing companies are asking or looking for, this is the direction I was leaning:
• $10,000 Bond/4 years through Notary Rotary - $ 50.00
• $100,000 E&O Insurance/1 year through Notary Rotary - $50.00
• Professional Signing Agent Training Manual through Notary Rotary - $95.00
• Notary Seal or Stamp – I have seen the Brother or Max Light recommended which I can’t locate, Stingray Pre-inked stamp through Notary Rotary - $18.95
• Journal – most recommended one is here through Notary Rotary $18.95
• Finger Print Pads - $7.95
• Background Screening & Certification Exam through XYZ (includes online certification exam, BGC, free 1-year XYZ membership, free 1-year XYZ Notary Signing Agent Section Membership.
• Do you need the I.D. checking guide? (if so, expense is) - $23.95
• Premiere Membership to Notary Rotary - $99.00

I know there is still a lot more start up cost like laser printer, scanner, etc. and I will seek advice on all that later. So my question is, if I chose to enter into this profession is my best choice to use Kathy Poston’s book as my training, will that alone prepare an individual well enough (along with reading the message boards, watching webinars), will you be prepared to pass XYZ certification using this book? Is it best just starting out to have that certification from XYZ, or would you recommend just going with a BGC from NotRot? Do you need to purchase I.D. checking guide? Would you recommend 100,000 in E&O insurance? Do notaries carry more than one seal or stamp, which do you recommend? Is it worth paying for membership to places when I have checked a lot of these places and there are only two other notaries listed for my area or within 120 mile radius? I seems like the more research I do the more questions I come up with. I appreciate your time and patience with all the questions.

Reply by ikando on 5/31/13 1:38pm
Msg #471843

Sandy, first let me applaud you for starting out by researching, then asking specific questions.

Here is what I think. Kathy's book is handy to have, and can give you a good base. Reading and staying on top of the comments here on NotRot will give you much information. As far as XYZ's certification, that's a personal call. I don't have one from them. I've got a background check from NotRot, and buy most of my supplies and $100,000 insurance through here. I have not purchased the ID guide as I rarely am presented with ID other than as issued by Oklahoma. As far as seals or stamps, I do have two, one for GNW and the other for NSA work. If you choose to do the same, be sure they are secure at all times.

Finally, in my opinion, it is well worth paying for the premier membership with NotRot. You can see more companies that you may want to contact, as well as you get a discount on the supplies.

I wish you good luck on your new endeavor.

Reply by Sandy Maupin on 5/31/13 2:02pm
Msg #471849

Thank you ikando for your response. This is probably a stupid question but do the stamps vary for general notary work and signings or do you justprefer to use various stamps? May I ask a little background, do you do signings through signing agencies or TC mostly, have you found anyone unwilling to accept your NotRot BGC? Also I'm wondering if someone can give me more detail about what premiere membership here would offer (I have read on the site), yet it seems sorta vague... discount on some supplies, there was the free training class but yet it says not available in my area, there was the discount on BGC, and you have mentioned a more detailed list of companies is available? Thank you for your reply

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/31/13 8:28pm
Msg #471890

FYI, the price for E&O insurance varies GREATLY from state to state (and possibly even within some states) - and as with many other things, it tends to be much more expensive here in CA.

Good job researching! Love to see that! Sounds like you don't have much competition where you are, but how good that is depends on the number of homes within driving distance. With little competition, it makes sense to market directly to title companies because you're more likely to be able to expect a decent fee. Probably a very good idea, though, to get some experience under your belt via signing services first. Once you have a certain comfort level with the lay of the land, go for it!

Good luck...

Reply by Don Courtney on 5/31/13 1:45pm
Msg #471846

E & O

You have done a lot of research, well done so far. I will comment on the E&O question:

1. In order to get on the approved list of some major title companies, you need the 100K policy. Getting direct work from Title is generally considered the holy grail of Notary work.
Many pay nearly double what you can make from a signing service. They are also regulated
and are a very low default risk. For example, the Fidelity National Financial group owns about 10 title companies, including Fidelity, Chicago, Ticor & Lawyers. In my view, generating business from this and similar companies should be the #1 priority of any professional signing agent.
2. The price you quoted was for a $10,000 policy.
3. Be sure to shop around. For my first policy I paid $463 (4 year term). I just purchased my 2nd policy for $208 (diffferant vendor - also a 4 year term).

Hope this helps a little & Good Luck !

Reply by Sandy Maupin on 5/31/13 2:08pm
Msg #471851

Re: E & O

Thank you Don for the advice. I am a little confused about the E&O insurance. If I look on the Notary Rotary site they have E&O insurance and Signing Agents E&O insurance. I was quoting just the E&O insurance so if you are going to do signings then I take it you need to carry the Signing Agents E&O, what is the difference? Thank you again.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/1/13 11:00am
Msg #471935

NR allows you to combine policies. If you are going to do

both kinds of work (gnw & signing agent) I would recommend getting both types. BTW, the SA E&O is more expensive.
As far as XYZ is concerned, they are not a "necessary evil". Many SA's have been very successful without them. While the "certification" may fool the public, it means nothing, really.
I also commend you for all your research.
Most of the insurance, supplies, etc. are available here on NR, and it's where I purchase almost everything these days.
Be sure to do a complete profile, it's valuable advertising space. Also, a premium membership is a good investment.
Good luck. :-)

Reply by Sandy Maupin on 6/2/13 8:18am
Msg #472005

Re: NR allows you to combine policies. If you are going to do

May I ask what is recommended coverage amount/split if you are getting both kinds of E&O? Thank you for the advice.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 5/31/13 1:56pm
Msg #471847

Join Notary Rotary - Premier Membership n/m

Reply by HSH/WA on 5/31/13 1:57pm
Msg #471848

Re: Good job of researching, I like that there are only two

notaries in your area - I have dozens. When my insurance comes up again I am going to look into a combo of E&O/NSA insurance - and carry $100k between the two. I will then join NR but if I were starting out I'd join up front to get access to the emails of the various SSs. I'm dual commissioned because I am next door to Portland OR but I only sign about 10% of my business their. I've never done GNW (general notary work) as no one seems to want to pay for me to drive and notarize at their homes, hospitals etc. Before you jump in to this remember there is a strong "on call" element to it. You never know when you might be getting a job and that tends to effect your plans etc. Hope this helps.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/1/13 9:15am
Msg #471922

Stellar posting that should be used to refer newbies to!

In the eight years I've been a member here, I don't think I have ever seen such an exceptional example of how a person should approach entry into this business, and into this community. You certainly have my respect and many accolades to you. =)

To your questions, we'll mostly be an echo to each other but:

1. Printers - do it once, do it right, not an item to scrimp on. I chose mine by asking the person who procures for the State of MI (a lot of printers) and the person who procured for former employer (again, a lot of printers). They both chose the same primary printer, and the reason was that they were work-horses that rarely failed. 2 calls, representing many thousands of printers purchased. I think most of us have 2 machines - a laser work-horse that's single-function, and an ink-jet MF (scan, copy, fax).

2. I came with built-in experience & never took training, so can't comment on those - but, were I coming into this w/out much experience, I know how I'd do it. I'd take each commonly-used document (since most documents are common, though format might vary) and Google it separately, carefully selecting the sources I give weight to - and trying to begin with the originating source. I'd then dig deeper into that specific document until quite familiar with it, the common formats, what it's used for, whatever I could learn. I would learn as much as I could, since there is NO law against comprehension and knowledge - regardless of what you might be able to share with a borrower.

3. As for obtaining certifications - I'm still collecting them, like badges of bling - about as meaningless as a real measure, but unfortunately it's those who TAKE the cert tests that really know how much water they hold. Most clients never take them, so ... they just see bling.

4. I carry 100k Notary E&O Insurance and agree, most Title Agents want that amount. I also just obtained 100k Signing Agent E&O, at the request of a client. I regularly obtain a BGC from NR (every 2 years), as most of my clients require one & many new clients note that as a reason for choosing me. (I work primarily with title agents.) There are a lot of the larger Nat'l title agencies & SS's that, according to postings here, want the XYZ's BGC - I've not personally encountered that but honestly, I don't do much work for those clients (due to fee issues).

5. My personal tip - local title agents CAN be your most lucrative venture. Save them as your Ace in your pocket and do not go near them until you really know your stuff. Once you're confident, then give them a call (Wed, 2nd -3rd week of the month), try to make an appt to meet/greet and give them your best shot. You'll not likely get a 2nd chance, so make sure you know what you're doing first.

6. As far as becoming a Premium Member here - even if I were the only person listed in my state, I would pay. If I didn't, the universe would be lopsided - just the forum alone is priceless. Just my opinion. =)

Reply by Sandy Maupin on 6/2/13 8:27am
Msg #472006

Re: Stellar posting that should be used to refer newbies to!

Thank you so much for the kind words Renee, I appreciate everyone's time and advice here. Thank you for putting the "certifications" into perspective. So may I ask, you didn't carry Signing Agent E&O when you first began? I am confused on if I move forward with this do you recommend carrying a split of the two, if so what would that be? Or is just carrying one going to suffice?

I am so impressed with Notary Rotary and the professionals here willing to give of their time, thank you again for your help.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/2/13 1:39pm
Msg #472026

You're so welcome

I did not obtain Signing Agent E&O until just a couple months ago, and that was at the direct request (new requirement) of a long-standing client. I have had Notary E&O Insurance since Day 1, currently in the amount of $100k.

If we go by what gets posted, I'd say the majority only have Notary E&O, and the minority carry additional coverage. Additional coverage might be with the Signing Agent E&O, or a General/Business Liability policy.

And again, you are most welcome. =)