Posted by Jodith/WA on 5/8/13 8:31pm
Msg #469263

Correcting notarial certificates

We regularly do signings for out of state purchases and often run across the California certs that state " I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the state of California that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct.". We routinely cross out "California" and correct to "Washington" and initial.

Well, we notarized a grant deed the other day, and now the escrow is calling and saying that the county clerk won't accept it with any corrections to the text of the notarial certificate. I've never run across this before. We correct certificate wording on an almost daily basis.

Has anyone else had this happen?

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 5/8/13 8:41pm
Msg #469267

do that too and figure one will come back one day.

clearly the clerk is overreaching. imho

Reply by Robert522TX on 5/8/13 8:47pm
Msg #469270

Quite frequently I get documents that have the wrong county pre-printed on them, and I always cross it out and write in the correct county, and so far nothing has ever been said about it....of course, this is in Texas not CA..

Reply by Jodith/WA on 5/8/13 8:52pm
Msg #469274

They had no problem correcting the venue. They just didn't want us to make any corrections to the text of the certificate. We're going to send them a Washington state loose certificate. They can like that or lump it ;-)

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/8/13 10:24pm
Msg #469285

Well, the venue is just as much a part of the certificate as the "text," where you crossed out CA for WA. Can't have a cert without venue.

That aside, this is conmpletely nutty. I think the county recorder had one too many martinis at lunch. Escrow should do their job and take care of this instead of whining to you about it.

Can you just send them a loose cert? No can do in CA; we'd have to get GD signed again and attach the loose cert to the doc.

In any case, I ran across something similar once (can't remember the details) and actually called the county recorder and they backed off.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/9/13 10:23am
Msg #469346

Four counties here have same rule, no strike outs period. Alameda, Contra Costa, Los Angeles and San Bernardino.
The County Clerk set's the rules for acceptance, not TC, LO, EO. They have the final say and boy do THEY exercise that right JUST CAUSE.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 5/9/13 10:50am
Msg #469353

Are there web sites stating these rules, or do they keep it a secret so they can spring it on people as a surprise?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/9/13 12:17pm
Msg #469372

Not that I know of other then the fact that I work for Attorneys who asked me why some Clerks accept certain Docs for recording while other's don't......so I called and asked. For example, some counties like Jurats attached to their Affidavits and will reject ACKS. Now if we (notaries) can't choose the type of notarial Doc how do we know what's going to be accepted or not? You gotta call.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/8/13 10:56pm
Msg #469288

Edited for brevity

Couple years ago I had a go 'round with a CA attorney about this CA POP (as I call it). I prevailed. This is why:

Excerpt from the United States Constitution:
Article 4, Section 1
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

And…

California’s own Law on the subject of out-of-state notarization.
(2) (b) Note italicized & boldfaced portion:

Civil Code § 1189.

(b) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken in another place shall be sufficient in this state if it is taken in accordance with the laws of the place where the acknowledgment is made.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/9/13 7:52am
Msg #469311

Adding: I cross out whole phrase making it AR-compliant n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/9/13 12:09am
Msg #469292

Just curious; The CA ack form is as follows:

"State of
County of _____________________________)
On _________________________ before me, _________________________________________
(insert name and title of the officer)
personally appeared ______________________________________________________________,
who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are
subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in
his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the
person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.

I certify under PENALTY OF PERJURY under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing
paragraph is true and correct"

Agree that Recorder is over reaching, BUT I do not think that it worth the time and ink to cross out the word "California" and write in your state.
All that the "foregoing paragraph" states is what we, as a Notary Public, do every time we execute an ack.

What difference does it make which state's perjury law is applicable, if the NP properly executes the ack in accordance with the laws of the NP's state.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 5/9/13 7:13am
Msg #469305

Re: Just curious; The CA ack form is as follows:

In my state the wording for certificates is not specified, which means that if it seems like a jurat, it IS a jurat. The wording in the CA acknowledgement seems like the notary has administered a solemn affirmation to him/herself. Notaries in my state are not allowed to administer solemn affirmations to themselves, so I won't use this wording at all. Of course, CA notaries are allowed to use the certificate because CA law specifically commands them to do so.

I've been told by an owner of a signing service that if I strike the clause out, it is likely to be rejected by the recorder if it is a California property, so I use a loose certificate with details from the document written at the bottom of the certificate, as to many others.

Reply by BobbiCT on 5/9/13 7:28am
Msg #469309

What difference does a word make ...

"Agree that Recorder is over reaching, BUT I do not think that it worth the time and ink to cross out the word "California" and write in your state. All that the 'foregoing paragraph' states is what we, as a Notary Public, do every time we execute an ack.

What difference does it make which state's perjury law is applicable, if the NP properly executes the ack in accordance with the laws of the NP's state."

NOT a legal opinion, just my personal opinion: The difference is when a plaintiff attorney decides to bring in the notary as part of the lawsuit what state the notary will be prosecuted in and under which state laws the notary may be convicted, fined and punished. The notary stated "under California" laws; a perjury conviction in California may be easier to get and have a harsher penalty than in Washington. Just my penny's worth. I would take the time and ink to cross out CA and write in CT and initial because I KNOW what the penalty for perjury is in Connecticut and I'd rather have an action brought against me under Connecticut's penalties ... which would be done in my home state.

Reply by pat/WA on 5/9/13 11:55am
Msg #469366

Re: What difference does a word make ...

I turned a signing back. The title company refused to let me use a loose WA certificate and I refused to use an acknowledgement that held me liable for perjury under the laws of California.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 2:23pm
Msg #469596

Re: Just curious; The CA ack form is as follows:

I found this entire thread interesting and enlightening. As an East Coast person, I have only closed 1 CA refinance loan...I've always crossed out items and corrected, and I found it fascinating to see the response by different county clerks in CA. I will be compliant with my state laws, but, I never want to do anything to jeopardize the ability of a loan to close. Knowledge like this is helpful in asking questions of title before it is too late, to resolve early on, and I appreciate someone bringing this issue to light.

Reply by MN on 5/9/13 9:05am
Msg #469321

I run into this problem all the time.. Wrong State, wrong County. I also have closed properties from another state. Some state accept the strike and correction while other do not.

In the past I was told by signing and title companies to strike and correct. The docs were not accepted and I had to go out again with the correct documents on my dime to be signed.

TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM I never strike out anything sent to me. I always attach and Acknowledgement reflecting the correct state and county. The first time it happens with a new signing company I give them a PASS the 2nd time they send me incorrect docs I charge $5 for every Acknowledgment I have to fill out.

And if something in the document the signers disagree with I try to contact Title or the Signing Agency to instruct me how they want to proceed. If I can't reach anyone to clarify this I asked the signers if the want to stop the closing or fill out a *Jurat With Affiant Statement - this depends on the state whom you are licensed with -some allow this as a Notary and *some state might not allow this.

If you use your own Acknowledgement or Jurat attachement you should always notify the Title and Signing company of this action.

99.9% I never have any problems with this - the 1/10% usually is accepted once they understand the intent is legal.

I noticed in some Title and lender docs the Power of Attorney and Limited power of attorney do not have a end date (document death). When I presented one of these docs to a active attorney or non-attorney they always refused to sign it - I just have them fill out a Jurat to correct the issue. *Usually the standard days for LPA in finance is 120 days.

*Do not give legal advice unless you are a licensed attorney.