Posted by snoopdogMs on 5/14/13 2:06pm
Msg #469872

Premier Lender Services, LLC. a 4 star company docked my pay

by $20 because I followed my law. They paid $150 for a RM but sent a check for $130. This pertains to the thread beneath this about California wording about perjury in our certificate. We cannot use that wording in MS. There were no instructions that we could not line through wording in our certificate which I have done many times to comply with our state law. I lined through the wording and initialed. I will not work for them again.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/14/13 2:16pm
Msg #469876

Attach a loose certificate to CA properties in the future that are compliant with your states laws and leave the one on the document blank. I ran into the same problem with this company and don't work for them anymore either.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/14/13 2:18pm
Msg #469877

Call 'em out on that deduction!

I've done dozens of RMs for this co. and always cross out/initial the whole CA perjury clause. Never a deduction. I don't think that perjury clause is in ANY other state's laws.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/14/13 2:27pm
Msg #469880

You're right Lee..that's a CA-specific notary clause

problem is somebody (who thinks they're somebody) at title or lender saw that language and thought "gee, that looks good, put that on all our docs from now on" - and whether it's required in the state or not we're all fighting it.

Our certs here have 9 required elements - that "penalty of perjury" clause is not one of them. And I resent having to knuckle under to another state's laws because someone at some company is clueless. I crossed that out on a RM I did (and I've been crossing it out for 4 years) and suddenly they had a fit - the investors won't accept that!! Funny thing is they pay so much attention to this little garbage they don't realize that the certs they print containing that clause, for us in Florida, are still wrong because they're missing other elements we must include - and I'm still correcting them.

Since leaving that clause in is not against our notary laws, I leave it now. But it still irks me. If there was anything in our laws that prohibited us from including it, then I wouldn't use those certs. I find it's not worth the battle - he who has the gold, I guess.

I'd dispute this docking of my pay too. Cite the reciprocity law about accepting other state's certs.

JMO

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/14/13 2:41pm
Msg #469885

The bad thing about leaving it in IF you're not in CA is

that you are subjecting yourself to the following: (full text in Msg.469868)

(2) A notary public who willfully states as true any material fact that he or she knows to be false shall be subject to a civil penalty not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000). An action to impose a civil penalty under this subdivision may be brought by the Secretary of State in an administrative proceeding or any public prosecutor in superior court, and shall be enforced as a civil judgment. A public prosecutor shall inform the secretary of any civil penalty imposed under this section.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/14/13 2:56pm
Msg #469889

Re: The bad thing about leaving it in IF you're not in CA is

The clause is stated with regard to the "foregoing paragraph" - the "foregoing paragraph" being the notary cert...

"...personally appeared __________________________________ _ , who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/her/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.

They're stating that under penalty of perjury all of the statements in that ack are true - in other words, I did my job. Any notary that can't stand by that is in trouble anyway. I don't see where leaving that clause in subject me to a civil penalty - it will if the statements in the ack aren't true.

JMO

Reply by snoopdogMs on 5/14/13 3:26pm
Msg #469895

Linda, I am confused here. Who is they that are stating?

The affiant portion of the document is above the borrowers signatures and they sign. If there is affiant wording in our notarial certificate, would we become the affiant and our signature need notarizing since we are swearing under penalty of perjury?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 5/14/13 3:36pm
Msg #469898

Can anyone anytime anywhere invoke perjury penalties?

Something I wonder about is whether a person can just write they are certifying something under the penalty of perjury, without any law or rule authorizing it, and without appearing before a notary. I'll bet there is a federal law somewhere saying that bit about perjury above my signature on a federal tax return is authorized. I'm sure there are state laws allowing statements under penalty of perjury under particular circumstances, without a notary. But is it legal for anyone anywhere anytime to make such a statement?

If I leave "California" in the statement, and it turns out California has no authority to impose any perjury penalties on a Vermont notary, have I made a false statement by saying that California perjury penalties apply when the don't?

Reply by Yoli/CA on 5/14/13 3:41pm
Msg #469899

Interestingly enough ...

had a signing last week for a California property. Signing took place in California. That last paragraph in the Ack. cert. had a blank for the State (to be filled in).

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/14/13 6:44pm
Msg #469930

Re: Interestingly enough ...

<<< That last paragraph in the Ack. cert. had a blank for the State (to be filled in).>>>

I used to see that infrequently - now I'm seeing it more regularly. I suppose what is implied as a commissioned officer, is now in print so that the notary is put on notice and under "penalty of perjury" for their state's notary laws.

Reply by John Tennant on 5/14/13 4:05pm
Msg #469906

Re: Can anyone anytime anywhere invoke perjury penalties?

When you sign your tax form it is not notarized, however, you are stating that the return is true and correct. If it is not, depending on the circumstance, you could be considered committing perjury.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 5/14/13 8:10pm
Msg #469966

Re: Can anyone anytime anywhere invoke perjury penalties?

After searching Vermont laws for the word "perjury", except for taxation, I was unable to find any way for a person to commit perjury unless the person took an oath or affirmation. Since I can't give an oath or affirmation to myself, and this isn't a matter of taxation, it seems impossible for me to make myself subject to the penalties of perjury by writing stuff in an acknowledgement certificate. For me to knowingly suggest that I am stating something under penalty of perjury when I don't believe I am actually subject to the perjury laws would be an unethical false statement (in my state).

Reply by Jack/AL on 5/14/13 3:44pm
Msg #469900

I'm with you, snoopdog! I've changed several from

different companies. I'm in Alabama. Did one RM with five acknowledgments, but only two had the CA perjury wording. I lined through it, and initialed, as I've done with several companies. DocPros said the title company (though I've forgotten its name) would not allow that, required two new Acks without the CA wording, and sent me a label for shipping. When it was time to pay me, a little bit later than the norm, they'd only pay if I let them take $25 for the label from my pay. Here's the kicker --- They promised me a lot more work in the future! Not gonna happen........... Docs Pros is not on my list for companies for which I'm available to work.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/14/13 3:58pm
Msg #469902

Nothing to do with the document, all to do with the

notary cert..and the "they" are the notaries that are signing that ack that the people appeared before them, acknowledged before them and it's based on satisfactory evidence.

Now the problem for me is IMO this clause is unnecessary simply because by signing the ack the notary is stating those things. But try to tell that to the companies that want to get fancy with the acks...whether they apply to the specific state law or not.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/14/13 6:19pm
Msg #469923

10 Star Post, Linda H/FL n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/14/13 6:34pm
Msg #469927

After reading the responses, I've concluded...

that the REAL issue is.....strike outs!! I don't believe the "penalty of perjury sentence" is the problem. Companies want CLEAN pages - nothing lined thru. I notarized at Bank of America recently. They had a pre-printed acknowledgment and, for the most part, it was compliant. But it had the signer's capacity....example: Mickey Edward Mouse and Minnie Lucille Mouse, as Individuals and Trustees of the Mickey Edward Mouse and Minnie Lucille Mouse Family Trust.

I told the bank rep that only the signer's names could appear - their capacity could not. I asked her if it was okay to line thru the capacity and initial or did she want a "clean" acknowledgment attached. She said to attach a clean acknowledgment.

So I would advise that notaries just attach a clean acknowledgment. It's one thing to make small strikes outs and correct - such as the venue, or a date, but that "penalty of "perjury" sentence is long - and a LOT to line thru without making the page look tacky. JMHO

Reply by Jodith/WA on 5/15/13 2:11am
Msg #470005

Re: After reading the responses, I've concluded...

This is what I've been told by CA title companies. It's not the perjury line, it's that some of their county clerks are kicking documents back if the notarial certificate has any strikeouts other than correction to the venue.

From now on, I'm just attaching a WA cert to any California properties. I've had this problem occur twice in one week.