Posted by walthtz on 5/9/13 5:24pm
Msg #469466

SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU !

It is a real shame when people get on here telling others how to run a business. Now, I am not pointing fingers at you, but you know who you are. You blast everybody that has a different view or outlook than yourself. I, for one am sick of it. This should be a forum where Notaries can come & give help, pointers to others looking for advice. Who is to say that taking a low paying job is not worth it. When you start paying my bills, I will be very happy to listen to your advice on the subject. But, we both know that is not going to happen. I have been involved with this crazy business for many years & I am proud to say I make very decent living at it. Yes, I would like to take a job that pays big bucks, but the way the companies are, they all want to pay less all the time. You seem to forget, we are in a Service business. We service the clients that hire us. If a compnay wants to pay me my fee & have me fax the entire package to several people why would I NOT want to do it. That is MY choice, not YOURS!
It is very simple, if you have nothing positive to say, then please do us all a favor & SHUT UP!
& HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE END OF IT, BUT I AM SURE IT'S NOT.

Reply by Kat2857/CA on 5/9/13 5:56pm
Msg #469471

Well said walthtz............Thank You.... n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/9/13 5:58pm
Msg #469472

<<< We service the clients that hire us. If a compnay wants to pay me my fee & have me fax the entire package to several people why would I NOT want to do it. That is MY choice, not YOURS!>>>

Yes, it IS your choice as to who you work with - whether it's a one star company or a five star company. The problem is, notaries are warned through Signing Central and the Orange search button - which is why they are directed to both - that a company is one star and DOES NOT PAY, yet they take the job anyway (their choice) and THEN come here whining and moaning that they didn't get paid when they were clearly WARNED. Or they're warned that a company is a lowballer but they accept the $65 fee, are told the signing is "in their backyard" and the package is "not that many pages". Then when actual job is 100+ miles one way, practically a ream of paper for one set and full package fax backs, again, they're whining and moaning that they lost money.

<<< Who is to say that taking a low paying job is not worth it.>>>

$65 signings translate to about $7 per hour - less than minimum wage. At least if you worked at the mall, you can count on a paycheck every two weeks with less stress.

<<<....if you have nothing positive to say, then please do us all a favor & SHUT UP!
& HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE END OF IT, BUT I AM SURE IT'S NOT.>>>

At NotRot, you'll get straight talk and tough love. If you only want tulips and butterflies - find another forum. Refer to Linda H/FL's post 469451...it's brilliant.

Reply by desktopfull on 5/9/13 10:13pm
Msg #469513

He doesn't warrant personal attacks & name calling because

he wanted suggestions on how to could send a very large fax back package online. He wasn't complaining about a thing in his post.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/10/13 3:02pm
Msg #469603

Desktopfull

I had not read the other thread when I responded to the OP. My response to the OP was very specific to the statements he made in THIS thread.

Reply by Cherylann on 5/10/13 10:27am
Msg #469567

LKT, please share your math with us, how a $65 job turns into $7/hour? I'll share MY math with you:

Let's say 125 pg doc set, 2 prints, 250 pieces of paper. I buy legal on sale for about $50/case ... so approx. $5/ream and this would use up 1/2 ream. Paper cost $2.50

Toner: I usually average about 6000 prints per cartridge ... I buy competitive carts for my HP for approx. $45. Works out to about $0.0075 per page. Toner cost: $1.88

Gas: Here in the Chicago area I pay around $4.00/gallon. Car gets about 18/mpg. Most of my assignments are (on average) 30 miles roundtrip. Gas cost: $6.50

Pens: (and I know there was a different discussion on the boards about pens) I buy 'em at Office Depot Paper Mate stick pens for about $2/box. Let's say borrowers are so infatuated with them they keep 'em. Pen cost: $0.40

So I'm up to: $11.28 so far. Now, since I need items like electricity, Internet access, car insurance, house insurance, gas for heat, etc. anyway since I work from home, I do not consider any of that part of the 'cost' of doing a job. My printer and fax were both purchased outright and are business quality ... and they were both bought used (thanks, Ebay!) printer for $225 and the fax for $198 (LOVE this old fax beast ... auto feed that handles a good 60 pgs at a time autofeed - throw the 'criticals' in the doc feeder, hit start and go have coffee). Both have paid for themselves many, many times over.

For the sake of argument, I'll just throw in $15.00 to cover all these items I generally don't figure in. That brings me to: $26.28. $65.00 - $26.28 = $38.72. For a job within my normal travel distance taking an hour 'table time' and 1/2 hour travel RT, that breaks down to $25.81/hour.

Please let me know when the mall starts paying that kind of wage.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/10/13 2:59pm
Msg #469602

Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

into your equation are: taxes; marketing (business cards, website, Notary Rotary and other online directory memberships; cost of commission (class, testing, application to the state, file bond with county recorder, seal, journal - if required, briefcase, etc.); equipment depreciation; E & O insurance, mandatory background checks as required by the CA SOS. These costs must be considered for EVERY job. It may not be as costly to become commissioned in Illinois as it is in California. We have mandatory education, are required to have a journal, buy a bond, and get background checked. To file my bond and take the oath of office in 2007 when I first became comissioned, it cost $48. When I renewed in 2011, it cost $86 and I hear their raising the fee so by the time I renew in 2015, it may be $200......who knows. I think my seal was more expensive....paper and other essentials are more expensive. E & O is more expensive.

2/3 of a signing fee is expenses and 1/3 is profit and it takes about 3 hours for a signing (on average) - from printing to stacking the package and reviewing the paperwork to driving to borrowers, time at the table plus notarizing, taking package to shippers, then invoicing.

Divide a $65 fee by 3 = $21.67. $43.34 are your costs/overhead. $21.67 is profit. Divide $21.67 divided by 3 (hours) = $7.22 I disagree with you that a $65 signing fee = a profit of $38.72.

Reply by Cherylann on 5/10/13 5:08pm
Msg #469612

Re: Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

We're definitely different in costs. While you consider it as a part of every job, I don't. No classes mandated in IL, no testing, application once every 4 years $10 (might have gone up, I'll find out next year), $5K bond about $80-100, seal $28 good for 4 years, county recorder fee $5 (good for 4 year commission time), don't use a journal (not a requirement), no background checks that we're charged for from state, E&O I forgot what it cost to 'up' it with the same company from an 'included' $5K to $30K total (I don't carry a $100K policy). My briefcase was a gift from a former client and I'm still using it (10 yrs now).

Many of the items you listed, with the exception of taxes, are deducted/written off in the year you incur them, so it's not like those costs are repeat on a weekly or even monthly basis (at least not in IL). I keep my marketing to a minimum as far as out-of-pocket costs go, and even costs like directory memberships are limited and tax deductible.

Some of the 'time' you mention I don't automatically consider: I'll peruse doc set to be signed as borrower's copy set prints off. Total time to run through a set 5 to maybe a max of 10 minutes ... that's also while I'm sipping my coffee, listening to the news in the background, whatever. I know where all my dropboxes/UPS & FedEx outlets are and docs get dropped when I pass one (UPS box within 2 blocks from home, so if I'm not venturing forth for some purpose, I may have to make a special trip to drop docs). If job is after last pickup time in my area, docs will wait until next day to be dropped. Not one of the companies I work for require invoicing ... it's all automatic payments from them. Once in a great while I may need to invoice (maybe once in 2 or 3 months), but I have an invoice template set up and just plug in the particulars. My 'bookkeeping' is some simple (but for me, effective/efficient) Excel spreadsheets. As jobs come in, I just list them by date/client name/borrower name/town/fee. When they're completed, I continue the 'line' with signed/notsigned, start and stop mileage, maybe a special note if needed. Same with expenses, a simple spreadsheet with the most common categories (office supplies, phone, toner, anything related to marketing, etc.).

Now, I realize some of you take into consideration 'equipment depreciation' ... again, my equipment is older but built like a Sherman tank ... like the Everready Battery, they just keep on going, and going, and going. I truly don't know how you can say a signing should take 3 hours on average. Granted, there are appointments that run long, but that should be the exception, not the rule.

Using your example of $48 in '07 to file your bond (good for 4 years), that comes to an annual $12. Now break that down by the number of jobs you did that year. Even if you look at equipment depreciation, you're being 'reimbursed' if you will for that via the income tax calculation ... it's not something you pay for and never recoop.

It sounds like several folks incur monthly expenses like for faxing, etc. That's why I made the decision to pick up an old but dedicated fax for a couple of hundred $. I wanted business office quality and am not ashamed to say I have absolutely no issues with remanufactured/refurbished equipment if the quality is there. My printer is an HP 4100dtn; old, but rugged with dual trays, so no fooling around with page separator programs. Bought it on Ebay from a reputable seller who shipped it up free from TX. Plugged it in, and away it went ... hasn't stopped yet. It doesn't even jam. And my cell phone bill averages about $80/month ... all my 'home' services are bundled Comcast, so all outgoing confirmation calls, fax transmissions, etc. are all handled that way, not running up my cell bill.

I'm not trying to argue with you, so please understand that, but if 2/3rds of a job goes to your costs/overhead, that's your decision. My post was meant to show there's other ways to skin the proverbial signing fee issue.

CA is all around a more expensive state than IL (although state government officials are trying like the dickens to catch up with you).

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/10/13 7:47pm
Msg #469623

Re: Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

<<< I truly don't know how you can say a signing should take 3 hours on average.>>>

I didn't say/mean time at the table with borrowers runs 3 hours. I definitely agree with you that it's state specific. As rural notaries have their travel issues, so do city notaries. Depending on the distance, direction and time of appt, the drive time alone, round trip eats up 2 hours. In the city (Southern California) a signing at 10am Tuesday can be a far cry from a signing at 7pm on Friday - again, depending on the distance and direction. Printing, reviewing and stacking, time at the table (about 1 hour), notarizing, again reviewing before shipping, then shipping and invoicing....on average would run me approx. 3 hours.

I said Illinois doesn't require a journal. In CA, the SOS implemented a new rule that journal entries must be completed at the table, which means if I have 8 notarizations per borrower, that's 16 entries - and I do separate entries for each notarial act. That's time consuming, even though the borrowers are perusing the HUD, it's still time consuming.

Costs can ultimately be written off - but they still have to be paid for upfront. And yes, the $86 to file the bond and take the oath is once in four years, but I buy business cards and other supplies on a regular basis. Glad your briefcase was a gift....mine wasn't. 2/3 of a job goes to overhead because that's the way it is - it's not a decision. I do admit that I forget I'm sharing based on the CA experience. I'm guilty as charged ;-)

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/10/13 7:48pm
Msg #469624

Oops...s/b You said....not I said n/m

Reply by Cherylann on 5/11/13 7:20am
Msg #469647

Re: Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

I also realize the huge difference between CA requirements and IL. We have our travel issues here as well, time of day makes a big difference. I focus on time and location when deciding whether or not to accept. I can fully sympathize with those agents who deal with 100 mile RT assignments and have to accept due to lack of volume in their areas. Fortunately, I'm in an area with tons of heavily populated suburban towns. That's why I believe each one of us has to figure out what's profitable and what's not based on their unique circumstances.

I, personally, don't hand out business cards like mad. Only under certain circumstances do I give them to borrowers ... I really don't want them calling me after the fact with questions/issues that their LO should be dealing with. And I really don't want to deal with those public calls for POAs, product guarantee forms, etc. If John Q. Public calls for something that really is not going to be very profitable or not cost smart to him/her, I will always recommend they call their local bank first and see if they will notarize whatever it is for them as a customer of the bank (usually as a free courtesy in my area). Here in IL we're only allowed to 'charge' $1.00 per stamp.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 7:50pm
Msg #469625

Re: Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

Both of you had detailed cost analyses, well thought out, and suited to your differing client base and markets. What I have found is the pricier clients (better paying ones)...do take a lot more time and effort and 3 hours total invested in a $150-250 job is not out of the realm of unreasonable. For my well paying clients, I have post closing clerical work that takes a good 30 min, between copies and splitting the package, prepping the labels for the different places the package get shipped. It takes time...I usually go further. I need to review things more carefully up front, because the packages are not standard (not the simple do I have a HUD, note, Til, RTC...ok...criticals there, I can go)...Sometimes deeds appear with no warning..or extra people...and there are a lot of errors on title docs..So, I do have prep before I go, then the longer driving time, longer time to get the signatures, and longer post close.
For the vendor management companies, my distance is short, packages straightforward, not a million title affs, no need to text brokers afterward...no real surprises- My time invested is usually 1 hour...door to door...reviewing package as it comes out of the printer. No need to make labels and print them...Just slap them on the envelope, check that you have everything, and hit the road...Afterwards...post close...minimal...a couple of minutes and done...Packages are about half the size of the better paying companies...
I like working with both kinds of companies...Sometimes I want the ease of a simple package...In and out...3 stamps and done...Sometimes I like thinking, and using my brain...The profit margin is much higher on the lower paying jobs because I structure them that way, by only taking those that work on my scale of how much per hour I want to gross...total invested time from order inception to gone....The fee I will accept is based on that number. If that number works, I work...If not, I don't....
But, I do remember when I started out, when I had nothing but open time on my hands...And, even $5 per hour was worth it...versus nothing...since I was learning...
If the model works for you, makes you want you want to gross and net per hour, then it works. If you are dissatisfied with the numbers, tweak your model until it works, or leave the profession.
Everyone has a perspective and market unique to their situation and market...Understand the differences, take what you can from each, and respect the differences since they both work....

Reply by Cherylann on 5/11/13 7:47am
Msg #469648

Re: Cherylann, the fixed & recurring costs you have not factored

Fantastic summary of our discussion, Teri! Kuddos! I'm a vendor management type, I like the no usual hassels and simplicity. I still review docs ahead of time, and sometimes there will be issues that crop up. 9 out of 10 times those assignments are a breeze. Location/population is definitely a factor, and I believe experience also comes into the equation. How issues/difficult borrowers are handled at the table between a newbie vs. an 'old salt' can add significant time and frustration to the overall job. I also try to keep my total time invested "door to door" to an hour or hour-and-a-half. My free time is also valuable to me.

Another cost that comes into play that we really didn't touch upon too much is the upgrading of some facets we use. I generally don't go crazy getting the 'latest and greatest' until I can justify doing so ... ie, I have to see payback in the form of $$$ in my pocket before I take the plunge. Horror of all horrors ... I don't use GPS in my car or on my phone. I keep my travel to areas I know well and will print out/staple one of those good ol' MapQuest maps to my confirmation sheet (that gets me through some of our wacko subdivision layouts). In the very near future I'll be converting over to a smartphone thanks to US Cellular selling the Chicago market over to Sprint, but I'll be putting a smartphone my hubby no longer uses back in service ... so no out of pocket cost there. Now I'll have to learn to use the darn thing....

I follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/9/13 6:20pm
Msg #469476

Read Msg. #469451 n/m

Reply by Belinda/CA on 5/9/13 7:06pm
Msg #469480

Wow. You could be working for decent pay.

You could be working for more and not running yourself ragged for what works out to be minimum wage. But, go ahead and work for whom ever you like. You have the right. I stand behind you 100%. Heaven forbid you make more money per signing.

If you don't like what you read here, pass over it. Believe me, people on this forum could be nicer, but how is YELLING AT PEOPLE ON THE BOARD GOING TO HELP? How is telling the people on this board to SHUT UP! going to help? YOU ARE RUDER THAN MOST PEOPLE ON HERE.

A good number of NSAs that come here want told how to run their business. They ask how to do it in great detail daily.

You say, “but the way the companies are, they all want to pay less all the time.”
BINGO. Give the gentleman an extra large stuffed animal.
I ask, where does it stop? According to you it does not matter when or where it stops. You are content. However, there are those concerned people on this site who are saying enough is enough and trying to help others see the madness. They are being helpful, albeit rudely at times, but the motives are good (mostly). You cull through the advise like weeding out a garden. Toss aside what you don’t agree with and tend your vegetables.

As long as there are those asking a fair fee (not you) they are going to post that it can and should be done. They are fighting for you whether you like it or not. You are part of the industry problem. You are happy there. Fine. Be happy there. Be content to make less than you have to. More power to you. If you want to work for pennies and fax back whole packages and stand on your head on main street wearing a tree branch go right ahead. Makes you all the more popular with the cheapo SSs that you are catering to. Be happy. You will never run out of work. You have job security. Those who push for maintaining decent fees are not your competition so hearing them on this board should make your day. You get more work because they don’t want your kind of work. I do not see the problem.

Reply by ME/NJ on 5/9/13 7:12pm
Msg #469481

When rates go down even more make sure to thank people like

Walt, I will out any local notary who will work for scraps. Why not work at Home Depot or Lowes you would make more. You ruin it for others because you say YES lowballer call me I work for peanuts and want to wait forever and jump in hoop.

Reply by Barb25 on 5/9/13 7:35pm
Msg #469483

I happen to agree with you insofar as to you have made a

decision as to what is good for you and what works for you. So why do you keep coming back here fighting the same battle hoping to win something.. We all know or at least have heard by now what Einstein had said: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. And yet it is exactly what you are doing time and time again. I applaud your decision and agree that you have found your business model. Do it. It works for you. You do not and should not need validation from anyone else on Notary Rotary. I wish you the very best. Makes lots of money. From the bottom of my heart I mean this. All the best.

Reply by 101livescan on 5/9/13 7:46pm
Msg #469486

Wow! Everyone has their own biz model. Yours would never work for me, but I'm happy it works for you.

I love what I do, and the biggest part of the excitement is watching my business grow and prosper, serving the best lenders on the planet and being incentized along the way.

I'm not buying into working for less, in fact, with the rising cost of gas, tires, brakes, paper, toner, and other business expenses, I can't and won't work for less. Doesn't make sense, I might as well retire and sign up for SS benefits, stay home and walk around with my pruners in my garden.

I work, live and love with intention! My intentions are strong! I will stick to my plan of working for the best, living well and loving my work! There's something about being exploited by companies that just doesn't sit well with me.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/9/13 8:10pm
Msg #469489

I don't know what brought this on...I see a lot of negativity posted and a lot of positives posted by many...Everyone has a business model that works for them. If I live in a city (which I don't) where I could cover all of my closings on foot, within minutes...I'd fill my day with Quicken loans and make a bundle...! We have to weigh the options that work for us...There are only so many evening spots which are prime spots...and also when traffic is heaviest...travel time double, triple...I may get $175+ per order for a brokered loan...but, when I weigh in the traffic travel time to go 30 miles and tolls, it frequently means in rush hour that I am on the road 4 hours round trip for a 30 mile trip....Now..is that good money when one adds in the signing time, prep time and post time? Best case scenario, I've invested 5 hours in this high paying signing...!
Now, compare this high paying assignment with a low paying $65, $85, $100...going 4-5 miles back roads...simple package...Door to door my time investment is 45-60 minutes.
I do my best to fill my schedule with high paying jobs...but, I also look at the total time investment in each job, and if my hourly rate, net of costs, is achieved on some lower paying jobs, it makes sense to take them...Total profit is the name of the game...And, yes, some lower paying companies will get me if the closing is right down the street...And, the higher paying companies that are smaller will try to juggle their schedules to get me...Balance is what is important in my business model....
In each market, we find different variables which yield a different business model. I will never, ever judge anyone. We all can listen and learn from each other...Even this old dog learns new tricks...and shouldn't we all be open minded...

Reply by walthtz on 5/9/13 9:01pm
Msg #469503

You ask what brought this on?
I posted about faxing a package thru, the problem I was having & got blasted for asking for help.
all I needed was a little advice, but instead got jumped on by several people ( I guess they were looking for a fight)
It would be a nice change if when asked a question, you could just get an answer>?

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/9/13 9:42pm
Msg #469510

Walt, I read your request for help and the responses you received. Yes, there were many that were attacking. I have learned over the years to not read posts by those people since they are usually not positive or constructive. In this world there are all kinds of people. You learn to ignore them, and focus on those that are unknown or helpful. There were some good constructive ideas in the thread. But, I do understand how difficult it is when you are the one being attacked. All I can suggest is that you filter the responses and get what helpful advice you can from the others. Thanks for answering my inquiry about what brought this on.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/9/13 9:05pm
Msg #469504

Here we go again ....

"And, yes, some lower paying companies will get me if the closing is right down the street..."

And how many "right down the street" houses are there? If you used your home as the center and drew a radius to include "right down the street," how many houses would be inlcuded? How many of those would be refinancing? Of those, how many will be signing at the TC? How many would be using lenders/TCs that use SSs that you work for? How many of those SSs might actually call you? A notary could go their entire notary career and get just one ... if even that .... "right down the street" signing.

Paleeze, notaries, stop throwing out this "right down the street" rationale for taking low fees. It's a joke, it's a rationale and it never pencils out. If you want to take low fees - go for it if it works for you. Plenty of NRers do. And plenty of notaries live in a city .... and there's no way they could cover the city "on foot." Or even a bicycle ... tho wouldn't that be nice?

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/9/13 9:33pm
Msg #469509

Re: Here we go again ....

Where I live, in the past year...I have had 43 (I just checked) closings within 0.75 miles of me. Is that down the street?Of those 43, 22 were at $85. 9 at $100, 7 at $125, 4 at $150, 4 at $175, 1 at $350. I am also a tax accountant and have excellent records. Most of those closings were Sat morning closings which I always view as extras. The ones at $85 were door to door in 30 min, 20 min at the table max and 5 min each way walking, max! Please, do not insult someone who has a different point of view than you do.
I have been doing this a lot longer than most of you, yet I infrequently post, because the CA notaries tend to dominate this board with their point of view. I guess this Eastern Hick doesn't have a clue how to manage a business. I do on average 25 closings per week. In the "day", I did 40 signings a week...sometimes more, and that was back when we got $150-250 and docs were overnighted. Yes, I made incredible money, and I worked hard for it. And, I have consistently made six figures (after taxes) since I started in this business.
I do have a clue how to run a business, and I do make it a point to listen to other points of view. I think that was the point of the other gentleman. If you do not have something constructive and instructional to say, then, I would suggest you keep quiet. As I said, my model works for me. I would never insult your business model as it works for you in your market. Unless one has lived in my market, they cannot comment. But, one can take the best from everyone's strategies and incorporate it into a winning strategy for them.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/9/13 10:09pm
Msg #469512

Amazing!

Everybody who has signed 43 houses within 0.75 miles of your home (definitely walking distance) the past year, raise your hand. Especially those of you who, like Teri PA, do not live in a city.

Half that? Quarter that? 10% of that? Just one?

Feel free to PM, and I'll report the results. Seriously!

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 4:04am
Msg #469544

Re: Amazing!

I was saddened by your cynicism. I live in a "city" just not a big city like New York City, although it is a suburb of NYC. When I lived in PA, if I was lucky I had potentially 3-5 closings a year within walking distance. But, tons within 5 miles, and if I were in better shape, might have been walking distance. That area was a suburb of Philadelphia. Every metropolis has its own character and with that character comes opportunities and business models. The population and potential for work is much greater here than where I lived in PA. The housing market never went bust in this area, less than 100 miles from my own home, so there never was a loss of volume here. In PA, I suffered like everyone else, and marketed constantly. Small regional title companies were important to survival there, and in PA, the title companies are all owned by lawyers- a different demographic and different marketing strategy than marketing to vendor management companies. In NJ, lawyers are not allowed to own title companies...a conflict of interest. I still do a lot of PA work, which at 75 miles is a haul, but I can get there in about an hour. Going north in NJ means I am going less than 20 miles for that same hour.
I see now why so many excellent, knowledgeable notaries, who brought a lot to the board stopped posting over the years. If you recall, Cheryl brought up some of the ones from the past who shared willingly their experience and knowledge, and sadly, it is the negativity that had this group lose their experience and knowledge (Sue/PA comes to mind). I wish you the best in your pursuit of excellence.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 4:59am
Msg #469546

Re: Amazing!

When I reflected on things, I realized that location and relationships are the key to my ability to work things out. Less than 0.25 mi from my house is a Chase Branch. I have developed an outstanding relationship with the branch manager, who always requests me for the closings...In and out, quick...and fees are vendor management fees. He works around my schedule when he can. Less than 1/2 mil from me is a Citi branch...Again, they request me. Down the street is a TD Bank, again, they request me for their closings. I am requested by the BoaA branch too, but, I decline, as they are just too disorganized to make it work for the fees vendor management companies are willing to pay. Back in the days of IREP, Household/Beneficial, I made a ton of money working with the Branch Manager...I was fortunate enough to live on a cusp of three counties. I priced my home county at $75 (what they wanted to pay) and the outliers at $100. I developed a relationship with the manager at the closest branch which was an outlying county (10 miles away on PA roads!). He would request me for all closings, and IREP had to schedule me, or they would have a dissatisfied customer, even though I was more expensive. He would schedule a few in a row, 30 min apart, to make the trip worth my time, since he knew he was competing for my time with title companies that were paying decent money. These were a ton of day work assignments, so I loved filling my schedule, at $200 per hour. I follow that strategy that worked for me now..at the local branches here...I've learned a lot from people of differing metro areas and modified their strategies to meet my needs and my geography, and I never, ever attack anyone for being different than I am...Food for thought?

Reply by Cherylann on 5/10/13 9:56am
Msg #469558

Re: Here we go again ....

Very well said, Teri! I agree wholeheartedly. Several years ago, I busted my rear running around, and while I never made six figures, I made a very respectable income. Now, with prices for everything and anything like they are, I'm more selective in not only who I work for but (more importantly) how far I'm willing to travel. Everyone has to look at their own situation and make decisions based on what they want to do.

I'm in a nw suburb of Chicago and would never even consider crossing the boundary line for a job, even if it was $xxx. Not worth the grief to me. I generally stick to 1/2 hour travel max, and 90% of the jobs I take are all 10-15 minutes from homebase. So I look at 1 to 1/2 hours max (or less) for a job with a minimum of $75 fee. At my advanced age, I'm not willing to try to hit 40 hrs/week or more.

I drive an older ('99) car (Camry in very good shape), keep gas costs to a reasonable amount, buy paper on sale, refill my HP toner carts until the quality of the drum dies (even new I buy online but offbrand, definitely not HP carts) and keep all other costs to a bare minimum. May not work for some, but works for me and that's what counts.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 11:24am
Msg #469575

Re: Thanks Cherylann... n/m

Reply by loancloser46 on 5/9/13 9:00pm
Msg #469501

People like you are the reason that fees are getting lower.

Get a job at Walmart

Reply by loancloser46 on 5/9/13 9:23pm
Msg #469508

Accepts $50 closings according to bio on another website

Mike......I understand your frustration. I have one here too.

Reply by ME/NJ on 5/9/13 9:23pm
Msg #469507

You leaving Toms River Walt? n/m

Reply by sueharke on 5/9/13 11:33pm
Msg #469524

Why are you so angry? If you want help, try listening to the constructive criticism of people on this forum. If you think people on the forum don't know what he or she is talking about, then I suggest going to the Small Business Administration Development Center and take their classes. Also, talk to SCORE, a division of the Small Business Development Center.

You may be surprised at what you may learn about your business and what you are or are not doing right. I am writing this as a CPA. Of course, feel free to pay me $XXX hourly to teach you how to understand your business if you don't like the idea of working with the SBA.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 5/10/13 12:43am
Msg #469540

Wasn't that a Top 10 Billboard song in the late 50's? I could swear I danced to it.

...er, in the 70's...

Reply by 101livescan on 5/10/13 7:45am
Msg #469549

Well, maybe we've just all become a bunch of opinionated old pharts over the course of this biz since inception of this forum.

It's no cake walk, that's for sure. And I do agree, there are a few posters who jump out from behind trees like bandits in the forest to hold up the gold wagon.

I think you gotta think about how hard we (the long haulers) are trying to hold on to our business and not let it erode by people who are coming on lately with little skill or experience, taking whatever they are offered, fax backs and edocs included, using the bosses' equipment and supplies to print, so not much overhead, while we're all committed to and vested in this business, constantly reinventing ourselves to keep doing this work and some level of profit.

My opinion, standard: You get what you pay for. I had two offers from SoCal Signings to do an esigning for $90. REALLY? Not by me! They aren't lucrative at $125, so $90 is out of the question. I wonder who finally drove in on that one.

I had the second part of a two part signing, first borrower in Aspen a couple of months ago. The first notary rushed into the bank branch, point and sign, hurry, I'm on my lunch hour. She not only missed some critical doc signatures, but had the borrower sign in places he wasn't supposed to sign in. We had to resend those docs, and my borrower signed in counterpart.

Surprisingly, the loan did close on time because of the rescission period. The notary lacked attention to detail and could have sunk the entire transaction, causing a redraw and rate lock expiration. I'm pretty sure she was clueless. I'm pretty sure she won't get hired by that company again.

Get what you pay for!


Waltz, if you want to be politically correct and don't want to get slapped around, there are some topics you just don't bring up at the dinner table.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 8:39am
Msg #469553

Once upon a time, we were new signing agents, many of us had no clue what we were getting into. I was a notary, when Lori Cartwright (Pam Butcher Associates) called me up and offered me $50 to notarize some papers. I had no idea what I was getting into...I got the package....studied it and my notary handbook....and did the Countrywide HELOC perfectly...More orders came and she upped my fee to $60...Self schedule and Countrywide....I was happy...Then I started to research this business....in the era of dial up....High speed didn't come to my area for a long, long time....and I stumbled onto Susan P's signingagent.com website...and a few others...and started signing up with signing companies...at $50 a pop....I had no idea what I was doing, but I learned my craft, and learned it well....Studying, reading, and doing a lot of closings....making some mistakes (but minimal), and seeing all kinds of things...I was an apprentice...and receiving apprentice pay...Was I good...Yes, I was...because I was a perfectionist....and I wanted to learn...My point....At that time, when the going rate was $150 for title companies...I was only worth the $50---I wasn't ready for brokered loans and understanding all the relationships....And, now 15+ years later, I am still learning...by reading, keeping up with my craft, and making sure I understand the relationships...People back then were unselfish and not critical on helping each other...Some were cynical....I can't remember last names anymore...but I remember a Mickey who was cynical, but imparted a lot of common sense....We need to remember those that educated us through patience....who showed us the way to go....And, encouraged us....reminding us to not quit our day jobs unless we had plenty of resources to tide us through ups and downs...That wisdom prevails...

Reply by Lisa Cirillo on 5/10/13 9:44am
Msg #469557

Well said Teri/PA.

Reply by Teri_PA on 5/10/13 11:23am
Msg #469574

Thanks Lisa... n/m

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 5/10/13 10:09am
Msg #469563

I'm not knocking you; I would just like to point out a few things.

"You blast everybody that has a different view or outlook than yourself."
followed up by:
"It is very simple, if you have nothing positive to say, then please do us all a favor & SHUT UP!"

"If a [company] wants to pay me my fee & have me fax the entire package to several people why would I NOT want to do it. That is MY choice, not YOURS!"
in conjunction with:
"This should be a forum where Notaries can come & give help, pointers to others looking for advice."

You are correct no one on here can tell you what to do. Perhaps they lack some social courtesies with their responses when they offer them; however, they are still free to offer them. I would be the last person to tell you which job you should or should not take. It's an obvious statement that I am not you, and you've affirmed the equally obvious one that I do not pay your bills.

By all means, take the assignments as you see fit. Others will scoff at you for taking them and in reply others will scoff at them for having scoffed at you. That's the intriguing thing about advice though. When it's asked for, people disagree with one another. I'm grateful for that being allowed on this forum. As I've said before, it allows for some interesting popcorn material.

As a final aside: "HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE END OF IT, BUT I AM SURE IT'S NOT."
More than likely it will not be the end of it as you yourself know. If it were the end of it, we'd all get along, cease arguing, and this place would become rather silent since everyone was in agreement all the time...or if they disagreed they'd not speak up for fear of someone shaming them.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 5/10/13 10:47am
Msg #469570

Mb your diplomacy adds greatly to the board, thanks

It was the Rolling Stones! 1978.....

Reply by SERVICIO on 5/10/13 1:04pm
Msg #469589

@WALTHTZ (((APPLAUSE))) (((APPLAUSE))))

((APPLAUSE))) (((APPLAUSE)))) Finally somebody else who sees what I see! a Terrorist gets better treatment than some of us on here! I don't get on here much any more for that reason right there! Very mean and cruel people that like to take their frustations out on unsuspecting victims! It is not worth it! I found out that trial and error is all I can do. But at least it's my TRIAL and my ERROR! I don't need anyone to belittle me while I am learning. I at least know that I would never do that to anyone else! So keep your head up and your guard. One bit of advice that I have learned is that if you will take small fees you will be working like a slave and still have all the risk and expenses. So I have started standing firm on fees with the unknown companies. No they don't call back sometimes but then I get several calls from companies that will respect my fee. I am glad I was not bogged down with basically freebies (because they tell you they will give you more work if you lower your fee and that is a LIE! THEY DON'T!) You can add me to your supportive contacts list and if I can answer your question I will tell you. I have been a notary for over 19 years and a signing agent for 5 or 6 years now. I don't know it all but I have made my share of mistakes. So if I can help feel free to message me on FB at Servicio Internacional.