Posted by Jennifer Jackson on 5/15/13 8:13pm
Msg #470156

Universal Document Express

Never worked for them. They have 4 stars on NR...called me, offered $75 for a "combo" loan...asked what that was and they said a refinance and a HELOC. I immediately said no and they asked my fee...I countered with my fee, they had to "get it approved" and call me back. They did. Got the docs today and it is actually 2 separate properties. I am LIVID. I don't work for liars. I have the mind not to even go to this signing. BUT what I will do is go, and demand payment before I return the docs. How underhanded is that? I have never worked for a company like this, and believe me, I never will work for them AGAIN. ~irritated~

Reply by ikando on 5/15/13 8:17pm
Msg #470158

Jennifer, don't hold the documents hostage for more pay. That isn't fair to the borrowers/signers.

Perhaps UDE did not know it was two separate properties. Even if they did, if you countered and they approved a fee you felt comfortable with, considering even though the properties are different, the signers are the same and you're sitting at the same spot during the same time frame, then what are you really out?

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/15/13 8:25pm
Msg #470160

No, not for MORE pay, but for them to in essence pay me up front.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/15/13 8:28pm
Msg #470161

There is a big different between 2 properties that are being signed and one property and a HELOC. I am out an additional $50 of my time is what I am out. Had I known, my fee would have been higher, they would have said no, and I would have been okay with that. But don't lie to me. Now, I will spend more time then I planned to and will get home later. It is not necessarily about the money, but be honest!!!!

Reply by Jessica/FL on 5/15/13 8:34pm
Msg #470163

Wow! I really hope that this is not your business practice.

I would NEVER hold documents hostage or demand the money upfront. I believe that is very unprofessional. You should call the hiring party. In this case, for the borrowers sake, they should find another notary.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 5:20am
Msg #470187

Re: Wow! I really hope that this is not your business practice.

Of course this is not my business practice. Been doing this for over 4 years and this has NEVER happened to me. I work for honest SS and Title companies that do not do underhanded stuff like this.

Reply by CorpJen on 5/16/13 12:23pm
Msg #470226

Re: Wow! I really hope that this is not your business practice.

notary Jennifer is unprofessional... should call beforehand to explain the situation.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/15/13 8:24pm
Msg #470159

Are you serious??

You would hold docs hostage for a higher fee? Get this settled before you go or turn signing back. Looks like UDE's better days are behind them anyway, according to SC.

BTW, UDE might have been hoodwinked as well by the lender or escrow about what constitutes a "combo," whatever that is. (Sounds like a fast food order, not two mortgages). In any case, we're all going to assume you were just kidding when you said you'd demand payment before returning docs.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/15/13 8:32pm
Msg #470162

Re: Are you serious??

I am going to ask for a higher fee. I have already printed and I am heading out the door because I have never not shown up for a signing, however, I see people here all the time asking for their fee upfront and that is what I plan to do because if they would lie about the signing, I am probably not going to get paid either or it will take months on end to. I asked her what she meant by combo loan and she told me what it was. OH...and my fee was without printing. They told me they would overnight docs to me and then they called me today for me to print them after then had already emailed me the docs...this whole signing is a sham.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/15/13 8:42pm
Msg #470165

I read this after my post....and in my honest opinion

you shouldn't go to the signing - turn it back...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/16/13 2:25am
Msg #470184

Re: Are you serious??

"I see people here all the time asking for their fee upfront..."

This is exactly why I'm always warning people about being careful who you listen to... IMO, if you can't trust a company enough to have to request your fee up front, it's probably a good idea to not take the job to begin with.

I think you're focusing on the wrong things. First, I don't believe there's that much difference between 2 properties vs a first and a HELOC. I did one tonight with two properties. By the time we got to the second one, they'd seen everything already and we pretty much blazed through it. (I went over key terms of both loans in the beginning, then went back to get the rest signed. The second property took about half the time as the first one.

What you SHOULD focus on - and for which I think you have excellent grounds to ask for more - is that the docs were supposed to be sent to you overnight, but you ended up printing them. That's a pretty unambiguous change in the agreed upon terms. I've run into that many, many times and don't recall it ever being an issue to have my fee adjusted. Call them calmly and discuss this change. Even UDX might not give you any grief, because they may be able to call the title co and also increase THEIR fee. (No more comment on this company because I haven't worked for them in a very long time.)

I've been in similar situations before, though, and called my client as soon as possible after discovering the major disconnect between the terms agreed to and what was received. If not able to come to an agreement, I've turned the job back - but I would do so ASAP, to give them plenty of time to find someone else. I agree with the others... NEVER a good idea to hold back docs. There are lots of costly ramifications of doing so and you could end up with some serious liability on your hands. It could cost you a whole lot more than whatever signing fee you're trying to get upfront.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/15/13 8:40pm
Msg #470164

I hope they read this forum...as I know many other

companies do..

I hope they all see this wonderfully professional business practice you have in place...

Jeez Louise! Talk about occupational suicide! You could not be more wrong in holding those docs. On top of that, you publicly announce your intent to do it!

Good grief. I'm dumbfounded...no wonder we can't get paid what we're worth - with notaries pulling stunts like this.

SMH

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/15/13 8:44pm
Msg #470166

You are overreacting, talk to UDX and explain things in a

calm manner. I have never in 9 years had a company not make things right once the issues were brought to their attention and discussed. Calm down and be professional and by all means, return the docs onetime.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/15/13 9:13pm
Msg #470168

Re: You are overreacting, talk to UDX and explain things in a

Kathy, if I were Jennifer I wouldn't hold my breath on making things right. I did three signings for them October 2004, never got paid for any of them. I e-mailed them regarding the issue, no response. I posted about my experience, and they then sent me an e-mail asking me to resubmit my invoices, I did. No response. Total of the invoices was $500. (one of them I had to go out twice as the first time the borrower refused to sign. I put them on my Del Shannon list!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/15/13 10:24pm
Msg #470173

Uh ...... Sylvia ....

Runaway (with my money)?

So Long, Baby (I'll never work for you again)?

Two Kinds of Teardrops (You wasted my time *and* didn't pay)?

Show Me (the money)?

I give. What's your Del Shannon list??

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/15/13 11:01pm
Msg #470175

GG, I believe that IS her Del Shannon list, you nailed it!!! n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/16/13 9:04am
Msg #470198

Re: Uh ...... Sylvia ....

Del Shannon - My Runaway
My Del Shannon list was a list of companies I ran away from

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 5:40am
Msg #470189

Re: I hope they read this forum...as I know many other

First you need to READ then REREAD my post. The whole point of my post was that what I agreed to was not what happened. It was 1 property, 1 Heloc, no printing, was for $XXX.xx. THEN, after I accepted the assignment, the next day they called and said we did not overnight you the docs and can you print for an additional $XX.xx and I said okay. Get the docs and it is 2 properties, printing, and DOUBLE paperwork in each. Also, I could ask for a Paypal payment, same day, and send docs the same day...so what is wrong with that scenario??? You are dumbfounded, and so am I BECAUSE if all SS did this, none of us would get paid what we are worth. Oh, and did you even read the part that they offered me $75 for this double loan signing...yes, $75 for 2 loans, printing, with double paperwork in each?? Sometimes people should read what is being wrote instead of just jumping on someone. Obviously you did not read my post. I am typically booked all day 6 days a week, so I am doing something right. VERY right.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/16/13 9:19am
Msg #470199

Re: I hope they read this forum...as I know many other

Just so you know....I DID read and then RE-READ your post - I had to re-read it becaue I couldn't believe what I'd read it right the first and second, even the third, reading. And I DID read what was *wrote* and what was *wrote* was

"I have the mind not to even go to this signing. BUT what I will do is go, and demand payment before I return the docs. "

THAT's what I responded to. And you say you've been doing this for 4 years? If this is true, then you know better...not saying you weren't done wrong by the company. Never said that. But you don't discredit yourself by announcing your intent to do something like this.

JMO

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/15/13 9:14pm
Msg #470169

You cannot hold the docs hostage. Better just to call them and turn back the signing.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 5:44am
Msg #470190

I did try to call the SS but they were gone for the day. I left a message. I did the signing, double documents and all, and I intend to speak with the signing service today and docs will go out today. As I stated, this has never happened to me before, and I did not plan on being at the borrower's home for a double signing, each of which had duplicate documents in each packet. (so 4 notes, 4 DOT, 2 TILS, etc)

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/15/13 9:24pm
Msg #470171

NO!

DO NOT ever hold docs hostage. This incident is a costly lesson for you to learn.....costly, in that if it was handled differently, you wouldn't be LIVID and you'd would have either received YOUR fee for the actual job or they would have moved on to another notary.

When called for a loan signing, after the discussion, repeat back to the scheduler the *exact* details he/she provided about the assignment. Then say the following: "My fee of $XXX is based on the job we just discussed. If the job I actually receive is NOT what we discussed, I will be calling you back *immediately* to renegotiate my fee.

Sometimes, schedulers truly don't have ALL the details of a job and sometimes they flat out lie ...but in any case, if you say what I wrote above - it won't matter, you can't and won't be taken advantage of.

Reply by CJ on 5/16/13 1:23am
Msg #470182

Sometimes you just have to eat it.

I have said "yes" to jobs, only to find out they were not what I thought. Maybe I heard the city incorrectly and it is farther than I thought. Maybe the docs are 200 pages instead of 100. Maybe it's 2 loans instead of a piggy-back. But for me, once, I have committed, then I have COMMITTED. I will call the people and nicely talk about it, but if they can't change the fee or whatever, I just do it anyway, and I make a mental note to not for this company again, or ask more questions next time before I commit, or whatever. And like a previous poster said: many times the signing service is unaware what the docs really contain. If they are able to pay you more for two properties instead of a piggy-back, they might be able to charge title more for themselves too, so it's good to let them know. Maybe title lied to the SS and they were hoping no one would catch it.

I think the professional thing to do is to see this job through, and then if you don't like them, just never work for them again. How much are you really going to lose? It is worth it to you to get a reputation for turning back work and having a snit? How much better to get a reputation that you are as good as your word, even if you are unhappy?

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 5:23am
Msg #470188

Re: Sometimes you just have to eat it.

You are right. And like I said, I have never not shown up to a signing, and I have never had a situation like this occur. They offered $75 for a double signing that was suppose to be 1 property and 1 Heloc...I countered with my fee of $XXX.xx and they accepted. When I got the documents, not only was it two properties, all of the information was duplicated...so we actually signed 4 times. So not worth it.

Reply by SReis on 5/16/13 5:56am
Msg #470191

copies of note? Unless RM they shouldn't have signed 2 notes n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/16/13 10:21am
Msg #470208

Jennifer, I have a question about something you said

serious question...you said "When I got the documents, not only was it two properties, all of the information was duplicated...so we actually signed 4 times"

Are you saying you signed 4 loans? 2 loans each on 2 properties? Is that what this ended up being?

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 10:33am
Msg #470210

Re: Jennifer, I have a question about something you said

No, 2 properties, all with 2 sets of docs in each (which I discovered after I printed) and with instructions to print the borrower a set...so I know that the second set included was not for the borrower. With some title companies the will send docs with the borrower's copy in as well and you only have to print once, and give the borrower their set from within. This was not the case. (Side note - the borrowers were SUPER friendly and said they would request me for their next few properties they need to sign coming up. Although they were fabulous, I seriously don't like being shafted by SS's. That is just me. I work for a lot of really good SS that actually pay very well and know that communication is key.)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/16/13 11:17am
Msg #470217

So they had you get duplicate sets signed for each?

Wow...that's equivalent of 4 loan signings...how long were you there?

Reply by 101livescan on 5/16/13 8:16am
Msg #470194

From the get go, you sold yourself short by accepting this scope of work for $75, including Edocs.

My fee would have been $150.

Next, if you get more than what was initially described to you, you should have immediately called them to review your fee for more loan package.

Your bad. And now you can't hold back because you weren't savvy enough to ask for more in the first place, then add insult to injury for two packages.

You might as well hang it up. Or, take a break and get clear on your business model, because my dear you will quickly burn out and not make any profit whatsoever, but really be in the charity business, or doing this for free. Whatever you want to call it.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 5/16/13 8:37am
Msg #470196

Agree that docs are never to be held "hostage". Many companies read this forum and with your attitude, I don't think you'll have to worry about UDX calling you again and FWIW, you may have cut off your nose to spite your face with other companies.

It appears you accepted a lower fee and now other companies may call requesting you work for $xx. Always gather all in the pertinent info in the initial call for work. If your confirm is not accurate, you are not comfortable with the terms, they can't meet doc deadlines, etc, you have a choice to turn it back.

Hope you were professional with the Borrowers. It is not their fault.

JMO

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 9:57am
Msg #470202

I was VERY professional with the borrowers, and you are right, it is not their fault. That is why I did the signing. I've had excellent relationships with a lot of companies, none of which pull bait and switch tactics. Please read what I said...I did not accept the $75 from the beginning anyway. It says that I told them my fee, they called me back and accepted it. I would never take $75 for a refi and a HELOC.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 9:54am
Msg #470201

I did not accept a fee of $75...My fee was $120 to start, $150 with printing, but with 2 loans it would have been $180...and that is discounted because there were 2 loans. I did call, they did not answer. I don't know no one read what I said.

Reply by kathy/ca on 5/16/13 10:35am
Msg #470212

All this quibbling over $30?????? n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/16/13 1:17pm
Msg #470239

No..I don't believe it's the quibbling over the money

it's the principal of the thing - the misrepresentation, or not total disclosure, of the work involved - I think that's what got Jennifer so upset to begin with. I know if I had to have 4 sets of docs signed it would be for 4 times my normal signing fee and no, I would not make an adjustment for no travel because under the specs of this particular job I'm printing 2 additional sets - 6 sets total. If she stuck with her $180 fee they got a pure gift and have taken advantage of her, no doubt about it.

Reply by Frank/NC on 5/16/13 8:38am
Msg #470197

If you are that "irritated", just don't do the assignment and turn it back to them. You can't hold the documents hostage. I don't mean to be rude to you. However, it sounds like you haven't been in this business that long and you will discover that some companies will offer less than either you want or the job is worth. You just counter with your fee and if you agree, then you do the job. They aen't really being underhanded but just trying to make a bigger profit on the job the same manner you are trying to do. If perhaps you don't go to the closing, that is entirely wrong. Even if they are two separate properties, the fee for the second one will not be the same as the first.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 10:00am
Msg #470204

I have been doing this since 2009. Never once have a had a bait and switch move pulled on me, and I do 5 to 8 signing per day, 6 days a week. And yes, I was irritated because all of the original terms that I agreed to were changed the day of the signing, and not by me or in my favor.

Reply by Lisa Cirillo on 5/16/13 9:30am
Msg #470200

I'm a bit confused here.

You countered with your fee, they agreed, you received your docs for the signing. You found that upon receipt they were two separate properties. I'm not really sure why that matters if it's the same borrower but at any rate, why not call and get everything ironed out before the signing.

You could also turn the signing back and let another notary handle it. I've done work for UDX (a few years back) and I never had a problem with them.

Perhaps calling would have resolved many of the issues you seem to be having with them. Maybe the one scheduling the closing didn't realize that is was two separate properties.

Good luck, but be careful burning bridges. This business is competitive enough already. These companies are under no obligation to use any of us.

Reply by Jennifer Jackson on 5/16/13 10:02am
Msg #470205

You are so right, this business is competitive. I have never worked for this company before, and I don't plan too. I tried calling them and emailing them and got no response. I still upheld my end of the bargain because the agreement was with the SS and myself, not the client.

Reply by CJ on 5/16/13 10:58am
Msg #470215

UDX picking up the phone.

I work for them regularly, and they tend to pick up the phone. If they are not answering, it is because they are busy. I can always get through to them eventually. I also find that they listen and they to their best to accommodate.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/16/13 1:16pm
Msg #470238

With the mixed reviews in SC, I don't think I would have

accepted in the first place. Sometimes we get caught in a situation like this, and feel taken advantage of. There's no way to know if they knew in advance. I do hope you get paid at least what you agreed to.

Reply by Laurie Walsh on 5/16/13 5:35pm
Msg #470271

Never heard of that company. I have come to the place in my signing career that I turn down all signings from shady middle men companies.
Something like this happen to me with a company that I have done business with, but are not always on point.
They called me on a rush order, sign within the hour. It was only a 1st loan with over 200 pages, plus borrowers set.
I did the signing and when I sent the status report, I told them I was raising my fees across the board and I needed more for this signing. I told them they jepordised my service by making me late for the consecutive appointments that followed theirs. They made the accommodation on my pay request, no problem.

Reply by CJ on 5/16/13 9:26pm
Msg #470296

I have been working for UDX for years. They are not shady middle-men. They always pay, and if they forget to pay for a job, they fix it. They are just a regular, but small, SS.

Reply by RIcloser on 5/16/13 11:51pm
Msg #470300

I've had nothing but positive experiences with this company.