Posted by kcg on 5/28/13 2:41pm
Msg #471460

gnw continued

I posted several weeks ago, #466775, regarding GNW I had performed for a divorced couple. Wife drove several hours up with documents, I ID'd them, she shuffled papers back and forth, they signed, I notarized. It was a pleasant meeting, a little small talk. Now she is claiming that she signed "under duress". The husband did phone me and told me that she was making the claim and he wanted to give me a heads up.

So, ok, now I get an email.....she went to a hearing and is demanding to be heard before the judge. His attorney said I will have to drive down to Indianapolis (about 2 hours each way) and appear at 9am on July 2. If I refused, a subpoena would be issued.

I understand that I will have to appear much as this is going to set me back. I'll be tied up all day and won't be able to accept any signings. The email said "....compensation - mileage and a nominal witness fee". I'm sure it won't be too much. I think I could throw up!!!

Is this the point time I call my E&0 carrier?

Reply by Rita Adu on 5/28/13 2:59pm
Msg #471462

Sorry to hear

Why would you call your E&O Carrier? I don't see where you did anything that would warrant a claim. It looks like you just got caught up in the middle of some personal drama. As long as you properly followed all of your state's laws, you should be okay.

Reply by Lisa Cirillo on 5/28/13 3:05pm
Msg #471463

Re: Sorry to hear

You are not compelled to testify unless you receive a subpoena. I would wait until such time before I got myself upset. I know it's upsetting but you may not even have to go. Sometimes people (the couple) like to get everyone involved. I believe they may have to bring this to the attention of the sitting Judge and then the court will order the subpoena if the court feels it is necessary. Ride it out and see what happens. Good Luck!

Reply by Yoli/CA on 5/28/13 3:11pm
Msg #471466

Re: Sorry to hear

And, if you are required to testify, maybe court will accept a written statement rather than a personal appearance.

Reply by kcg on 5/28/13 3:19pm
Msg #471467

Re: Sorry to hear

I'm sure hoping that could happen. I wrote to his attorney and asked if I could do a telephone deposition. Atty said that we cannot do that in Indiana....laws don't allow it. He said he would try contact her and see if we could work something out. I don't know what that means. It would be nice if I could do a written depo.

I did comply with state laws and even have it recorded in my journal. I certainly could not know if she was under stress or duress....all I can testify to is that she signed under her own free will - there were no threats made against her before me.

These were post-divorce docs. I didn't read them of course only paid attention to signatures and my notarial block.

This is a real PITA

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/28/13 3:38pm
Msg #471472

Re: Sorry to hear

Welcome to one of the joys of being a Notary! Honestly, it is not unusual to be called in to court for things like this, and there's a risk of that because many of the documents we see notarized often involve things that may end up in court.

Honestly, it's not personal. They aren't saying you did anything wrong. You're just being called in to tell about your experience. Just tell the truth and make sure you take everything with you. Your original journal, your ID, your commission, etc...anything that would involve your communication with them, too. When I went, I was asked to bring copies of the emails the person sent to me showing dates/times. I don't know why they needed that information, but they did keep copies of everything they asked me to bring.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/28/13 3:32pm
Msg #471471

Re: Sorry to hear

You don't have to go (hardship) they can take a deposition locally or affidavit from you saying blah, blah, blah. If the attorney want's you to appear I wouldn't go period. They might as well subpoena the person who gave her the papers to sign.

. Now if you're being sued, that's a different story.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 5/28/13 3:44pm
Msg #471474

I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

I'll look for the written deposition I prepared when this happened to me. If the subpoena arrives you can attach the written deposition to it and return it. I serve subpoenas on a regular basis and most give a person options. If you must appear, don't assume it's on your dime. I told the attorney he'd have to pay me travel and an hourly wage.

Nothing may come of it try not to stress.

Reply by kcg on 5/28/13 4:38pm
Msg #471475

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

Thanks for the encouragement. I hate the thought of making myself unavailable for signings on that day and traveling over 200 miles. Good ideas from all of you!

Reply by Exclusive Mobile Notary on 5/28/13 5:25pm
Msg #471477

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

Sounds like an easy $1k if you get called in...

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/28/13 5:44pm
Msg #471484

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

You did nothing wrong. This lady is trying to weasel out of the agreement. The primary reason people get paperwork notarized is: (1) So the signer cannot say they never signed; (2) So the signer cannot say they were forced at gun point/baseball bat/crowbar/vicious dog/knife point to sign. If either of those two conditions exists in the presence of the notary public, it does not make for a complete and/or lawful notarization.

It can be nerve-racking. I was contacted by an attorney, requesting a journal entry copy of GNW that I completed. The attorney said the In-Law was suing and their attorney would be contacting me. While the attorney didn't come out an say it, they sorta, kinda inferred that the In-Law was suing because he/she believed that the notarization was done by a friend of the client - someone who got a commission ONLY to notarize for this bedridden signer. It was a signature by mark. I dropped off the journal entry copy and my business card and never heard anything since <GOOD, LOL!!>. So I know how you feel when these disgruntled people start suing everybody, including the notary, mail carrier, and grocery clerk.

In your case, if the lady didn't SAY she didn't want to sign, how were you to know? Is your crystal ball working? Mine isn't - it's been in the shop for awhile now - I told the company I want a new one but they insist on trying to fix that one so it remains in the shop. Unless a signer TELLS me they don't want to sign, I'd have no way of knowing they don't want to sign. The only way I'd believe they didn't want to sign (while being silent) is if they just sat there and physically didn't put the pen to paper. THEN I'd ask them. They don't even have to say NO....they can say "I'm not sure" or "I don't know" - either of those statements would stop of the appt instantly. Keep us all posted on the outcome.

Reply by kcg on 5/28/13 5:46pm
Msg #471486

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

I will update. thank you

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/28/13 6:29pm
Msg #471495

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

" While the attorney didn't come out an say it, they sorta, kinda inferred that the In-Law was suing because he/she believed that the notarization was done by a friend of the client - someone who got a commission ONLY to notarize for this bedridden signer. It was a signature by mark"

And that person was in CA? My goodness... that's a lot of time and effort just to perform one notarization.

Lisa' right... you really have no way of knowing if somebody is "under duress" or not. It's really not our job to determine that, either. Oh, sure... obvious and overt duress is one thing... but even then, you have to consider safety of just performing the notarization and reporting it after... but that's another thing.

It's outside of our duties to get nosy about situations and ask a bunch of questions.

It's up to the courts to determine if a signature or contract is valid or not... not us. The notarization simply means we witnessed it and verified the identity of the person signing/claiming to sign. That's it.

I'm wondering, worst case... rather than have you drive in, they provide a way fro you to give a deposition locally and have it entered in to the court record. I forget the legal term... but it's where both lawyers and the court agree that something entered as testimony would be what you would say or do if you were there in person and neither side objects nor desires to ask additional questions. It happened several times in a case where I was on the jury. It was for small things where they had an expert witness who would have come in and answered just a handful of questions and that's it.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/28/13 10:55pm
Msg #471534

Re: I agree with the others. Wait for the subpoena.

<<<And that person was in CA? My goodness... that's a lot of time and effort just to perform one notarization.>>>

The client said this In-Law is a "piece of work" and sues if you sneeze too loudly. They said it's been like that for their entire marriage.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 5/28/13 10:14pm
Msg #471528

Check your PM! n/m