Posted by Gary Williamson on 5/16/13 10:35am
Msg #470211

ombudsman

I read a post yesterday about notarizing a POA in a nursing home or at a hospital and the recomendation was to have an ombudsman present. How do you go about scheduling that?

Reply by janCA on 5/16/13 10:39am
Msg #470213

An ombudsman or patient advocate is only needed for a health care directive when being signed in a skilled nursing facility, it is not needed for a POA.

Reply by Gary Williamson on 5/16/13 10:56am
Msg #470214

Thank you for that information.

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/16/13 10:59am
Msg #470216

Most of the facilities I visit have a Social worker on site.

Reply by sueharke on 5/16/13 12:51pm
Msg #470233

That may not be true in CA as I ran into a situation where the POA required the Ombudsman to be present.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/16/13 12:16pm
Msg #470224

It's the law...

It's a more obscure law, it is NOT mentioned in our handbooks and it only pertains to the Advanced Healthcare Directive. It does not apply to the general POA.

Note that is only applies to a Skilled Nursing Facility (SNF) licensed by the DHS... a medical facility. It does NOT apply to assisted living facilities (RCFE) licensed by the Department of Social Services. I believe it's not mentioned in our handbooks because the law doesn't really apply to notaries per se.... but notaries need to be aware of the law because a AHCD notarized in a SNF is not effective without that additional witness. It's a legal call... so you have to tread lightly in how you present it. I just have a copy of the statute with me to give to people. It's well explained:


It's California Probate Code Section 4675:

(a) If an individual is a patient in a skilled nursing facility when a written advance health care directive is executed,
the advance directive is not effective unless a patient advocate or ombudsman, as may be designated by the Department of Aging for this purpose pursuant to any other applicable provision of law, signs the advance directive as a witness, either as one of two witnesses or in addition to notarization. The patient advocate or ombudsman shall declare that he or she is serving as a witness as required by this subdivision. It is the intent of this subdivision to recognize that some patients in skilled nursing facilities are insulated from a voluntary decision making role, by virtue of the custodial nature of their care, so as to require special assurance that they are capable of willfully and voluntarily executing an advance directive.
(b) A witness who is a patient advocate or ombudsman may rely on the representations of the administrators or staff of the skilled nursing facility, or of family members, as convincing evidence of the identity of the patient if the patient advocate or ombudsman believes that the representations provide a reasonable basis for determining the identity of the patient.


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=prob&group=04001-05000&file=4670-4678

Reply by sueharke on 5/16/13 12:53pm
Msg #470234

Re: It's the law...

Thank you for that clarification. I think in the issue I had someone did not understand the law.

Reply by sueharke on 5/16/13 1:14pm
Msg #470237

Re: It's the law...

Does this mean that we don't need a current ID (if the signer has none)? May rely on a creditable witness?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/16/13 1:31pm
Msg #470240

Re: It's the law...

Nope, that code applies only to the patient advocate/ombudsman. It says that they can rely on family or staff to vouch for their ID. The advocate's purpose isn't really to identify the person, though, but to be sure they aren't being coerced, etc. As a notary, we still have to properly identify them per state guidelines.

Reply by sueharke on 5/16/13 1:47pm
Msg #470243

Re: It's the law...

Thank you for supporting my personal position on the ID requirements in this scenario.

Reply by sueharke on 5/16/13 1:44pm
Msg #470242

Re: It's the law...

Does this mean that we don't need a current ID (if the signer has none)? May rely on a creditable witness?