Posted by Integra_Sign on 12/6/03 1:38am
Msg #369
Personal Information
In the State of North Carolina, the Office of the Attorney General is urging consumers to take responsibility in guarding against identity theft. I contend that this does not rest with simply the consumer. It also rests with Independent Contractors, more particularly Signing Agents.
We have Signing Agents (Notary Publics), who have gone into business form themselves and formed Corporations, but are nothing more than referral services. Most of them do not even have a floor up under them, but they seem to require what is known as T. M. I. which means Too Much Information.
I would like to encourage all of you that will listen, to think about the information that you are forwarding to these signing agencies. Recognize that they are not the Lender, nor are they the Title or Escrow Company. Most of these companies, if not all of them, will not ask you for such things as: Drivers License, Social Security Cards, nor a Sample of your Seal.
Think for a moment. Your Secretary of State has commissioned you, and granted you a Seal. They have given you established guidelines and laws to govern your activities. These Signing Agencies will have you to completed an application which asks for your SSN or EIN, and then you submit an IRS form W-9. You send a copy of your Commission Certificate. That is all that they need to send you a check.
Remember that you are an Independent Contractor and not an Employee! It your responsibility to guard against providing excessive amounts of personal information when it is redundant or bears no material relevance. You are responsible to prevent fraud, not to succumb to the potentialities of fraud. Be careful and watchful as to whom you submit excessive personal information to.
Perhaps I'll be black-marked for this post, but if any entity does that, you really have to wonder what their true intention really was. But one thing is for certain, no entity likes the Attorney General breathing down their necks. And Companies should never appear as though their company policies over-rule the Laws and Provisions of Other States.
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Reply by Integra_Sign on 12/6/03 10:33am
Msg #372
Sure there is something you can do! But let me get this point out of the way first. Anyone can start up a business and hang a few shingles. Persons can get lucky and market themselves to a few Direct Lenders in what I call, "the backroom board meeting." And now that they've hung their sign out, which says, "open for business"; luckily, they get a deluge of requests that, they as individuals cannot fulfill. So, they get some help from some friends. In our case, a few notaries. And the Saga begins.
What happens is, we tend to establish norms or trends. And as newer people come into play, the established norm seems to be the law of the land. But it's not! Ask yourself this question? Did the Secretary of State ask you to forward a copy of your Drivers License, before they Commissioned you? Did they require that you forward a copy of your Social Security Card? Did they ask you for any information that they could not use to easily verify your person? But even if they did, it's ok! Because they are a Government Institution. Does a private company equate the same?
We can change this norm. We donot have to suffer under it! And if enough Notaries will take note of this and not respond to the big brother tactic, these companies will drop that request or risk going out of business, and real soon too! Now, I'm sounding like a rebel here, but the truth is, I'm the farthest thing from it! Consider this, if I were to ask an SBI Agent for his Social Security Card and State Issued Drivers License, opposed to just accepting his Badge as his Authority and his Gun to ENFORCE that Authority; he would look at me as though I have just lost my mind! Now, some may think that to be the extreme, or irrelevant. But it's the same thing.
Signing Companies are not going to spend the money to perform background checks on ever Notary (or any for that matter) that signs up with them. Because it's not cost effective, and the business that is conducted does not warrant it. And if so, not by them anyway! So, why would they need to know your Notary Commission Number? Conversely, if you're hungry for business (no pun intended) and you throw caution and sound judgment to the wind, then, you'll find yourself sucking wind or grasping for straws. And you'll leap through ever hoop placed in front of you.
You've got to stand up and be a NOTARY! I'm reading posts about how all of these Signing Companies are not paying the Notaries that have contracted with them. These Notaries have performed services in good faith. They,ve complied with request after request, been inconvenienced, but nonetheless performed the service. Yet, they go unpaid. But the company required all of this legal and personal information! Why?
The most likely reason for that is, they got in over their heads. Or, they've put the cart before the horse! I have submitted documents to Direct Lenders who have not required such information as others have, because having that information serves no useful purpose. But if you are afraid you won't get hired, that's not a good reason to through judgment to the wind. If you are comfortable with it, fine, send your information. But don't ever feel that it's mandatory. Because it's not! If they don't want to hire you, ok, they don't hire you! They're a Signing Company! They can't give you business until they get the business anyway! Why not? Because they have established themselves as a pass-through entity. A referral service! Think about it, "Independent Contractor!" Why not "employee?" The Direct Lender or Source entities don't even know your name really, accept for who to send the docs too!
I doubt very seriously if a Direct Lender (and I've worked with many of them) cares whether or not you have Errors and Omissions Insurance! However, they do care that you meet your States requirement with respect to the same. Consider this as well, if you are not a Notary, would there be a point in being a Signing Agent? Hello somebody!
Can you check on them? Yes, you can. You should be able to contact their State's Department of Revenue, to see if they have a License to do business there. You can check with their Secretary of State, to see if they're filed as an Incorporation or Partnership, or a Limited Liability Company. You can request a copy of their "Articles of Incorporation" or "Articles of Organization." You can ask for their Federal Tax Identification Number, and run it through the IRS to see if it's even valid or active. Whether they will send these items to you or not is another question to be answered.
What I'm saying in a nutshell is this. There are a lot of entities that have burst on the scene who call themselves Signing Companies, and we flock to them in droves. We'll take anything and undercut anybody to get the business, even at the expense of throwing rational thought to the wind, or compromising your integrity or ethics, and/or failing to employ the use of sound judgment. Furthermore, too much is being made of this Signing Agent thing. It's being over glamourized! Until 2001 only a little if anything was heard on the stage of mortage financing about Signing Agents. It's only important to them that are making money from it. It's psychology! It's a marketing scheme. And for those who have established a career based on Signings, you've built your house on Sand. And if we don't get a grip on this thing, the State will take it over, and I guarantee you, we will not like it. Everybody's got an organization! And they charge money to belong to them. But do you get a call? Very few, if any ever will. Meanwhile, you've spent your money, that's for sure! Instead of going to the Mortgage Company, the Direct Lender and offer your services. Letting them know that you're in the area. Going to conferences and interacting with the Bankers and the Brokers, and the Title companies that attend these same conferences, who are also prospecting for business.
Though I have recently dissolved my company, I still receive the "Mortgage Report, Mortgage Originator, Origination News, Rate Sheets and Lender Programs," and the like. These magazines are filled with information that tell you where the industry is headed. And to them that are used to the peaks and valleys of the mortgage industry are braced for it. But those that have no clue, go out of business just as fast as they went into business.
Exercise care and sound judgment with these so-called companies. There are some legitimate ones out there, and I'm not attempting to mark them. They are worth their weight. But there are just as many, if not more, that are not legitimate, or they are operating on a shoe-string budget out of the basement. The more you chase a dollar, the more it will flee from you, and at the end of the day, all you'll be is tired! And remember what our parents use to tell us: "It's not a good thing to eat from everyone's table."
The commitment is a two-way street! I have recieved packets from Signing Companies which request information, but they don't even have an address! Just a FAX number! Or, they don't want a Written Agreement, don't want a W-9, don't want anything! Am I to feel that I'm going to be paid? I don't think so! By the same measure, I've signed with some, and never heard a peep from them! What are they doing with my information? Why did I send it? The response is, "well, business has been slow." REALLY? Hmmm, that's an indicator!
If there is only one thing that I do know; I do know the mortgage industry. Don't take me the wrong way. Your task as a Signer is an integral part of a loan closing. I will not denigrate that by any means. And yes, there are some "renegades" among us, which is why care is to be given when submitting personal information.
If your gut is telling you "NO," why do you kick against the prick? Or, why do you consciously go against the knowledge that you know is true? You may get lucky sometimes, but just consider it as that, and nothing else. To everything there is a season. Remember that! Hang in there, and use good judgment.
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