Posted by Yvette Ambrose on 8/12/04 8:32am
Msg #5977

non-payment in New jersey

what do you do when an attorney does not pay you for a signing? He was paid by the title co. for the signing.

Reply by Julie-MI on 8/12/04 9:49am
Msg #5981

Report him to the state bar assn.

Reply by Anonymous on 8/12/04 1:49pm
Msg #5985

Call the scumbag attny and tell him you are going to call the borrower and put a lean on the property.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 8/12/04 2:27pm
Msg #5986

In most jurisdictions you can't do that. The borrower is not a party to your contract. You are a sub-contractor to the title company/attorney and are not providing a "value add" to the property, so your "mechanics lien" as a sub-contract probably won't fly.

The borrower has already paid for your services, whether or not your are listed on the HUD is immaterial. You fee is included with the "blanket" fees the attorney is charging the property owner. Your restitution lies with the contractor who hired you.

Reply by DonR/NYC on 8/12/04 4:57pm
Msg #5992

Question:

Is it possible to put a "mechanics lien" on the company that contracted you? Of course I won't do it for a small amount BUT if a number of SAs banded together in some sort of class action "mechanics lien" (if there is such a thing) that could wake someone up.

Reply by Yvette on 8/13/04 7:33pm
Msg #6045

the situation is that the atty. called me to do a signing. He faxed an order confirmation with the agreement that he pay me $75.00. The borrower paid the title co. for the signing, and in turn the title co paid the atty. for the signing fee. The atty, is located in Long Island, New York. The title co hs informed me that so many SA have not gotten paid, the title co has refused to do business with this atty. I am filing a complaint with the State of New York Greivance Committee for the 10th Judicial District. I had originally contacted 77 wabc radio-call for action and a volunteer woman steered me to the right person. We cannot let these cheats get away with not paying, especially when they were paid. That's theft. He has MY money. By the way the atty. is Thomas A Sirianni, 60 Broadway, Massapequa, Long Island, New York., So, if you get a call from him, tell him that he is on the DO NOT DO list. I'llk keep you posted on the outcome.

Reply by Mary Pierce on 1/19/05 9:06am
Msg #17309

Did you ever get paid from this skunk?

Reply by sue on 8/12/04 5:40pm
Msg #5993

I'm going to disagree that the borrower is not a part of your contract. it's their loan. although I'm guessing that all of us morally wouldn't want to collect from the borrower, I'm not sure how a judge would look at it. again, it's their loan.

a situation that arose in my area - and perhaps all over the country but I'm not sure - people/businesses paid for trash pick up and put it out at the curb every week for years. one day the federal government decided that the places the trash company dumped their trucks had created some type contamination and decided all these dumps had to be cleaned up and someone had to pay. the government went after the dumps/municipalities, the dumps went after the waste haulers, the waste haulers went after Joe & Jane Citizen.

so, I believe that most of us don't want to involve the borrower. but, in the right situation, I would and I'd let the judge sort it out.

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 8/12/04 6:32pm
Msg #5995

This issue has risen before, though not in our business, but in similar circumstances where the sub-contractor, hired by a contractor, who was hired by a vendor which was engaged by the home owner tried to place a lien on the home owners property because the contractor failed to pay the sub-contractor. It was ruled that that home owner had no part in the agreement nor negotiations between the contractor and the sub-contractor. And since there was no "appreciable increase in property value" for the services rendered by the sub-contractor, the court ruled that a mechanics lien could not be placed on the home owners property.

Therefore, there is actually a statute here in FL regarding mechanics liens on real property. There are similar laws in most, if not all, other states that follow the guidance of the Miller Act and state specifically "a lien created by statute for the purpose of securing priority of payment for the price or value of work performed and materials furnished in construction or repair of improvements to land, and which attaches to the land as well as the improvements." The only exception, that I am aware of, to the "improvement of the property" aspect of the law, is a Broker's Lien, specifically written for the mortgage brokers protection, and adopted by 20 or so states.

Without regard to the Brokers Lien, there are three key items as noted in the statute:

1. There must exist a contract between the property owner and the contractor

2. There must exist a contract between the contractor and the subcontractor.

3. There must exist a quantifiable improvement to the property by materials and/or labor or services.

I submit, that though condition 1 does exist, condition 2 may or may not exist, but condition 3 certainly does not exist. As a signing agent, we offer no additional value or improvement to the property.

Finally, the borrowers are not a party to the signing agents contract with the SS or title company. Typically, they contract with the lender or broker. Though they may be the beneficiary to the services performed, they are not a party to the negotiations, conditions nor settlement of the contract.

Reply by sue on 8/12/04 7:39pm
Msg #5998

I wasn't talking about a mechanics lien - I was talking about suing them civilly - in my state it's called an action in assumpsit. Certainly none of us would know the outcome until it came before a judge but again, in the right circumstances, I'd do it and let the judge sort it all out.

Reply by sue on 8/12/04 7:40pm
Msg #5999

and

isn't it sad that we must even have these type discussions but that's part of being in business as we all have learned

Reply by PAW Notary Services on 8/12/04 10:04pm
Msg #6001

Sorry, Sue, I thought you were, since "Anonymous" posted "tell him you are going to call the borrower and put a lean (sic) on the property". Which is what started this thread.

I certainly agree that just about anyone take sue anyone for just about anything. And let the courts sort it out.