Posted by BrendaTX on 12/20/04 5:27pm
Msg #14198

Affidavit Work Fee...asking on behalf of another

A new notary recently stated to me that she can only charge:

$___ per notarization, plus mileage of $.34 per mile.

I know we have had this discussion before, but can we revisit it? Is there any state that prohibits notaries from charging a reasonable travel fee?

For instance - I charge $25 - $35 for up to three clicks of the stamp for a ten mile trip.

Is this reasonable given a $4 - $6 notary fee?

If it were $2, would that still be reasonable?

Reply by colorless_AZ on 12/20/04 5:42pm
Msg #14201

Arizona:

2.00 per seal stamped (not per borrower's signature as many believe but per notarization. Was told this by Mary Van Loan Asst. Director Business Services Division SOS)
34.5 cents per mile travel, no extra fees allowed. No fees for time spent, no nothing.



Arizona Notary Public Reference Manual CHAPTER 9
FEES
901. Can I charge people to notarize their documents?
Yes. The fees that you can currently charge are no more than $2.00 and are outlined in
A.A.C. R2-12- 1102. (The Arizona Administrative Code Rules has the full force and effect of law.) If you charge fees for performing notarial acts, you either charge the fees up to the
amounts specified by rule or you perform the notarial acts for free. You are not allowed to
charge more FOR NOTARIAL ACTS than the amounts specified in A.A.C. R2-12-1102, even if you call the additional charge a "service fee" "transaction fee" or some other name. Such a practice would constitute "charging excessive fees" which is not allowed according to A.R.S. §§ 38-413 and 41-316(C). If you charge higher fees than those allowed by rule, you are liable to the party aggrieved in an amount four times the fee you unlawfully demanded and received. You would also be guilty of a class 5 felony. If your company or office tells you to charge more than is allowed by rule, please show your employer the laws and rules pertaining to Notaries Public and explain that overcharging for notarial services is a felony. Your employer may call the Secretary of State's Office if questions about this law arise. Please note: if you charge fees for notarial acts, you must post a list of those fees in a conspicuous location. (A.R.S. §§ 41-316, 38-412, and 38-413.)
902. Can I charge some people one price and other people another price?
If you do this, the people whom you charged a higher amount could claim that you
discriminated against them. It's best to set your fees and then stick to them. Either charge the same fee for every notarization or don't charge at all. When you treat people differently
concerning fees, you could face a discrimination lawsuit.
904. What happens if I charge more than the rules say I can? Can I add on
a "service charge"?
If you charge more than the rules allow for a notarization, you are liable to the person
whom you charged the excess fee an amount four times the fee unlawfully demanded and
received. In addition, you would be guilty of a Class 5 felony. (A.R.S. §§ 41-413, and 41-
316(C)). You could charge a travel mileage fee and charge per diem, however, if you must travel a distance to perform the notarization. The travel mileage fee and the per diem that you could charge would be the amount allowed Arizona state employees. Currently, the mileage fee is 34.5¢ per mile. The per diem charge depends on when you leave your home base (either a business address or a home address, depending on whether you are performing the notarization for your employer or on your own time), when you return to your home base, and how long you were gone for the purpose of performing the notarization. The rates change periodically. Check with the Secretary of State's Office before charging a customer to ensure that you charge the correct amount.

Reply by DarleneAZ on 12/20/04 5:44pm
Msg #14202

According to the AZ SOS office, we are only authorized to charge 34.5 cents a mile plus $2.00 per notarized signature. Since that is all that is all we are allowed to charge, I do not do any mobile notary services to individuals as it is not financially feasible to provide those services. My time alone is much more valuable!

Reply by DarleneAZ on 12/20/04 5:46pm
Msg #14203

As colorless stated, I should have used the correct verbage as to $2.00 per notarization.

Reply by mike/ca on 12/21/04 10:27am
Msg #14235

none in calif

Reply by Art_MD on 12/21/04 11:33am
Msg #14241

There may be other variable involved. There could be other activities which you are performing.
1. Are you receiving documents?
2. Are you taking them to the person to sign?
3. Do you have to address and drop off an overnite package?

#1 is an activity outside the notary function. You can charge for that.
#2 You are acting as a courior - charge for that.
#3 This is another courior act - charge for it.

Most states have a low notary fee. In MD its $2.00 per act. .35/mile.

A refi closing can be broken down : $125 for closing (with e-docs). 9 notary acts. 20 miles each way.

1. $18 notarization acts
2. $25 e-docs
3. $14 mileage
4. $58 explaining docs to borrower
5. $10 drop off overnite package

#1 an #3 are set. The rest you can charge what you want. Since you acceptr a fee without knowing the number of notary acts, that fee could change and then you change the explaining. Record the highest fee allowed for notary acts and keep a count. This fee is not subject to self employment tax.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 12/21/04 4:58pm
Msg #14266

Regarding the exemption from self employment taxes:

I spoke to the SOS about this on the 17th of Dec and was told that notary fees are definitely not exempt from taxation. Is there a tax differenciation between notary fees charged by self employed loan signers reporting business income vs. doing regular notarizations without a business license? Maybe she was refering to one and not addressing the other?

It was also suggested to me by someone that I should not charge for the notarizations that I do during a loan signing. Why is that? Does this involve some legal loophole I'm not aware of? This would certainly make all the income taxable, would it not?

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/21/04 6:22pm
Msg #14273

SE Tax

Your fees are taxable income.

They are not subject to Self-Employment Tax - Per Pub 17 of the IRS:

Notary public. Report payments for these services on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040). These payments are not subject to self-employment tax. (See the separate instructions for Schedule SE (Form 1040) for details.)

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch13.html#d0e35929

Reply by colorless_AZ on 12/21/04 6:34pm
Msg #14274

Re: SE Tax

Thank you Brenda, this does clear up the taxable thing for me. There must be a difference if the notary is not self employed.

I'm still wondering why about the other thing, what would be the benefit of not charging for notary fees during the signing?

Any clue on that one?

Reply by Jon on 12/21/04 6:42pm
Msg #14277

Re: SE Tax

On the tax side, I can't think of any benefit for not charging notary fees.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/21/04 7:50pm
Msg #14283

Re: SE Tax

Jon...here's the problem that led into this discussion:

I have recently learned (or think I have learned) that in AZ, a mobile notary is very restricted on how they can charge for their services. Since I have recently set up a site for notaries to market their non-loan work to litigation support firms and lawyers, I was contacted by a notary and picked up these tidbits:

As I *understand* it, if they do a loan signing, they can charge for the signing appointment work (i.e., couriering docs, printing them, presenting them), but, because of the restrictive nature of their fee schedule, they might be better off to do the notary work for free. Sort of "while I'm here, I can just notarize these docs for you as a favor" type thing.

So... to address why this question came up...while they might get a break on SE tax if they charge the notary fees, a notary might be more comfortable while itemizing the fees of a loan signing appointment by throwing in the $2/certificates for free.

DISCLAIMER: Carefully consider that I might just be a laptop wielding psych-ward patient from Texas who doesn't even have a commission. Excuse me while I go for Compulsive Liar's group therapy...I'll be back in a bit.

Reply by Jon on 12/22/04 1:18am
Msg #14296

Re: SE Tax

"So... to address why this question came up...while they might get a break on SE tax if they charge the notary fees, a notary might be more comfortable while itemizing the fees of a loan signing appointment by throwing in the $2/certificates for free."

While the notary may feel more comfortable, I still see no advantage from a tax standpoint.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/22/04 1:48am
Msg #14299

Re: SE Tax

Jon - you are exactly right. That was why started posting the response ...but, I forgot to say it! Got off on one of my SNL Emily Litella moments. (~Nevermind!~)

Reply by Art_MD on 12/22/04 7:38am
Msg #14308

Re: SE Tax


There is definitely a tax advantage to charging for noterization acts.

In MD we can charge a max of $2.00.

My records show that I have performed 1953 noterizations this year - I track notary acts just like I track mileage.

At $2 / act, that is $3906 that is NOT subject to the 12+% SE tax. Thats give a savings of over $450.00.

If I were in a state with a $10/ act max., I'd be in 7th heaven.

Art