Posted by Orca / SoCal on 12/7/04 7:37pm
Msg #12938

Can I notarize a baseball?

A fiend asked me if I could go with him to a baseball game and if he could get a player to sign a baseball, could I notarize the signature? It seems that with this authentic certificate the baseball would dramatically raise in value.
Any opinions about this?

Reply by Fiend? on 12/7/04 7:57pm
Msg #12942

Did you really want to say "Fiend"?

My State Law will not allow it. The Law states "A Notary's signature and seal
must appear only on a notarial certificate (such as an acknowledgment or jurat)
accompanying a written statement signed by another person."

But if the "Fiend" wants to write a statement - then you could notarize the statement.

Reply by Orca on 12/7/04 8:40pm
Msg #12947

Sorry, typo

Reply by HisHughness on 12/7/04 10:53pm
Msg #12957

Is there any reason you could not write an acknowledgement on the baseball? Seems like that would be ultimate legitimation, and might well increase the value of the trophy.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 12/8/04 12:19am
Msg #12967

Not in AZ

41-313. Duties

A. Notaries public shall perform the following notarial acts, when requested:

1. Take acknowledgments and give certificates of the acknowledgments endorsed on or attached to the instrument.


INSTRUMENT

contracts. The writing which contains some agreement, and is so called because it has been prepared as a memorial of what has taken place or been agreed upon. The agreement and the instrument in which it is contained are very different things, the latter being only evidence of the existence of the former. The instrument or form of the contract may be valid, but the contract itself may be void on account of fraud. Vide Ayl. Parerg. 305;Dunl. Ad. Pr. 220.

Source: Bouviers Law Dictionary 1856 Edition

Reply by HisHughness on 12/8/04 8:16am
Msg #12978

colorless/AZ disagrees that a notary acknowledgement of a signature can be inscribed on a baseball upon which the signature has been placed, and cites the following:

***A. Notaries public shall perform the following notarial acts, when requested:

1. Take acknowledgments and give certificates of the acknowledgments endorsed on or attached to the instrument.


INSTRUMENT

contracts. The writing which contains some agreement, and is so called because it has been prepared as a memorial of what has taken place or been agreed upon. The agreement and the instrument in which it is contained are very different things, the latter being only evidence of the existence of the former. The instrument or form of the contract may be valid, but the contract itself may be void on account of fraud. Vide Ayl. Parerg. 305;Dunl. Ad. Pr. 220.

Source: Bouviers Law Dictionary 1856 Edition***

The cited reference actually reinforces what I suggested, that the acknowledgement could be placed on the baseball itself. It simply notes that the agreement and the instrument that contains the agreement are two distinct things. In the case of the baseball, of course, there is no agreement, just verifications of a signature. Further, there is no proscription on the form of the instrument in the reference cited.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 12/8/04 9:52am
Msg #12983

agreed. I included the definition of instument because it stated, "contracts. The writing which contains some agreement." The baseball, with signature only, does not contain an agreement. If there was a contract on the baseball, you could do it.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/8/04 11:29am
Msg #12998

It Wouldn't Increase the Value...

...in fact it would have the opposite effect of making the baseball virtually worthless. An artistic analogy would be if someone placed their Notary certificate on the Mona Lisa. An autographed baseball becomes valuable because of the famous nature of the player signing his name, the relative scarcity of baseballs with his name on it, and the condition of the ball itself. Anything which defaces (i.e. adding wording to the ball, scuffing it, spilling fluid on it, etc, etc) the "work of art" only serves to devalue it. I speak on this issue from the standpoint of having in my possession (in a safe deposit deposit box) several valuable autographed baseballs & a friend who's taught me the ropes of memorabilia collecting.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/8/04 11:34am
Msg #13000

Before I'm Excoriated...

...my previous post should have read "safe deposit box"!

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 12/8/04 12:17pm
Msg #13008

Hurry

You best let your friend out the the safe deposit box before he eats your baseballs

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/8/04 12:26pm
Msg #13010

He IS a Small Guy...

...with a big appetite!

Reply by HisHughness on 12/8/04 1:40pm
Msg #13019

Re: Before I'm Excoriated...

Though it was I who raised the question of enhanced value, the issue really was not what impact a notarization on the ball itself would increase the ball's value. The issue was whether the ball could, indeed, be notarized.

And another aside on another matter, Dennis, it is absolutely absolutely no fun if you're going to correct your own errors errors before I get to them.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/8/04 2:14pm
Msg #13023

Thanks Thanks, Hugh Hugh!!

I'll try not to spoil your fun fun in the future future!

Reply by Dogmonger, Ca on 12/8/04 12:59pm
Msg #13013

I'll bet their is a Big Mac in their somewhere? NM

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 12/8/04 1:14pm
Msg #13015

Nope!

I don't have a Mark McGuire autographed baseball. I have Mickey Mantle, Lou Brock, George Brett, & one ball which has Moose Skowron, Tom Tresh, Bobby Richardson & Johnny Blanchard signatures on it. The most valuable one is the Mickey Mantle which I obtained personally at a baseball card show. The ball with the least value is the one with four signatures on it. It's somewhat frowned upon in the baseball collector world to have more than one signature on a ball, unless it's the entire 1927 or 1961 Yankees starting lineup.

Reply by sue on 12/8/04 7:38am
Msg #12974

to be even picker about this scenario, you'd have to be at the game to see the player sign and that's a basic.

And, I'm going to go one step further to rake the coals - you do need more training if you are asking this question. Every notary should know you must have a notarial certificate to sign, you can't just 'stamp stuff'.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 12/8/04 10:05am
Msg #12986

I believe that the notary must only witness the signature is on a jurat. Acknowledgments require that the signer state, in the notaries presence, that the signature is his signature and that he willing signed.

Acknowledgment: The act of admitting or owning to something.


"The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me..." is the wording on an acknowledgemnt.

"Subscribed and sworn before me..." is the wording on a jurat. Subscribed meaning signed.

Reply by colorless/AZ on 12/8/04 10:29am
Msg #12990

sorry about the typos, math majors can't spell.

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 12/8/04 12:14pm
Msg #13006

Another problem

I do not believe that the players last name in block letters on the back of his shirt constitutes valid identification in most states
These guys usually keep their wallets in their lockers together with their supply of steroids and corked bats
Also , it would be quite a trick to affix most seals to a small , round ball

Reply by HisHughness on 12/8/04 1:46pm
Msg #13020

Re: Another problem

Bob-Chicago notes:

***I do not believe that the players last name in block letters on the back of his shirt constitutes valid identification in most states. These guys usually keep their wallets in their lockers together with their supply of steroids and corked bats. Also , it would be quite a trick to affix most seals to a small , round ball.***

As always, Bob, you brightened my day.

I recall the time when I read a story by another reporter on the paper where I worked. It had a wonderful line in it, and I exclaimed, "Gee, I wish I had said that!" Another reporter quietly murmured, under his breath, "You will, Hugh. You will."

Reply by Stephanie/CA on 12/8/04 6:11pm
Msg #13045

Re: Another problem

Hey Bob..
Your response here is quite entertaining....thank you

BTW
are you going to the NNA conference in Vegas?
I'll be there; hope to see you then.

Stephanie

Reply by Loretta Reed on 12/8/04 3:28pm
Msg #13030

My husband is a baseball collector and ebay seller. He said No. It has to be certified by a reputable company such as Tri Star or Steiner. Don't put your seal on that ball, it won't be worth anything.

Reply by Orca on 12/9/04 2:11pm
Msg #13118

Thanks

Thank you all sooo much for all your imput