Posted by William Soronen on 12/21/04 1:46pm
Msg #14256

My worst dreams come true..

So here I am, signing away, established contacts, got listed on a few different databases and some work came my way. Everything is swinging just fine, I'm confident and happy in my new work.

Then the music from "nightmare on elm street" came thundering in to herald the auspicious beginnings of a nightmare signing two weeks ago.

To begin with I received a call from the broker who pushes me most of my work.

Broker: I have a situation here william, can you help me out?
Me: Sure thing, whats going on?
Broker: "Well I have a borrower that lives in LA and she is purchasing three properties
in Nevada, I talked to her and we negotiated a fee of $100.00 per doc set, is that
ok with you? (more on this later)
Me: "..Pause.....Sure thing, I can do that for you this time since she has all three sets to do
at one sitting correct?"
Broker: " Yes, not a problem, I'll have everything sent to you by Friday or Saturday."
Me: "ooooo, not good for me, I have reserve duty this weekend so the best I can do is Friday
night, sorry."
Broker:" Ok, let me get ahold of Title and Escrow and see what we can do about getting you the
Doc's fed-exed by Friday ok?"

Day Later.....

Broker: "Ok William, Title is sending you Edoc's tonight, can you have them prepped and signed
tomorrow (Friday)?"
Me: "Yes"
Broker: "And o-by-the-way she has a daugert in law who is also buying property same spot can
you do hers as well for another $100.00?...I just dont know if we can get the Doc's
before tomorrow morning".
Me: "Sure thing get them to me before I drive from San Diego to LA and no problem."

I prepare the Doc's the night before.
Next day.

Broker: "WIlliam, the Title company has some thigs they want to fax to you that need to be filled
out by the borrower.
Me: "Ok, fax them and I will take them with me.

Hour later

Broker: "Also the Lender is sending you some addendums to the Loan Doc's through your E-mail
please attach these before you go"
Me: "Ok, I will have to reschedule for this afternoon though, or I will be late, also I have not
received the Doc's for the Daughter in law, keep in mind that if you still want me to do
those doc's that it will be my regular fee of $250.00 for out of county.
Broker: "What?!...you agreed to the $100.00"
Me: " yes, I did, if I was sitting down with her mother and her at the same time, it looks like a
separate signing right now though"
Broker: "what makes you say that, how do you know it is going to be a separate signing"
Me: ..glances at clock...then E-mail...."Well I dont have anything on her and I need to get going
as soon as I get the last of the info from the lender"
Broker:" Ok, just forget about it (nastily) I'll have someone else do that."
Me: " Ok. fine."

So I get the last of the info, keep in mind that I have received 3 sets of discluseres from one entity, three sets of loan doc's from another, and that I have also received various E-mail attachments and faxes of things to include here for the signing. I have never done this before
or been so pressed for time. I basically spent 4 hours building these doc's from scratch and making copies, then I drive to LA for 4 hours (rush hour traffic) get there, and do a 3 hour signing.

This was excruciating, i really did a thourough job of making sure I had everything put together correctly, and when I got there, I took my time with the client (who was not adverse to the idea of taking it slowly and steadily giving the amount of documentation...a small mountain) and made sure we got everything done properly. I got in my car and hit the LA rush hour (still going on) traffic for a wearying three hour drive home and asked myself...did I do everything that was in my power to execute these documents to the best of my ability and knowledge ....to my best knowledge...the answer was yes. I slept well that night.

three days later i get a call from the the Broker," William, the escrow company is calling me saying that you missed some stuff and didnt initial your change of Venue, please get ahold of them and find out what they need."

It turns out that on the last set of loan Doc's I didnt notarize the compliance agreement, so I call the escrow officer, and she says, please send me an aknowledgement for this form which the borrower signed but you didnt notarize, I apologized and told her how the whole signing had been a big mess from the beginngin and how I built the Doc's from several different sources and was tired blah blah blah....please forgive me, she said no problem, "just send me another compliance form that you notarized and I will attach it to the one she signed" Another compliance form I ask?...yes...another compliance form...ok.

I filled out and notarized another compliance form and called her back as I had forgotten to get the address, she gave it to me. I also forgot to ask her about what she wanted me to do about
the initials for the change of venue and so called her one more time. She said not to worry about it, a Good Title company will just initial them and send them through, she knew it was a bit hectic for me having to get so much info in so little time and then get through 600 pages of doc's and get everything %100.00 like that, she even acknowledged the fact that when different companies get in a hurry to get a loan through, things get crazy. I said fine and felt much better about the whole thing and called the broker and said not to worry it was taken care of (by the way the broker is extremely P.O.d and I already know that she isnt calling me back for any more work, but I am ok with that because of the way this whole thing came down, First she decided to negotiate my fee's for me before calling me about it, but as she is a new client of mine and the signings were all in one sitting I said why not....instead of $750.00 I make $300.00 and get more work in the future, then she decided to get bent when I told her that the daughter in law was going to be standard rate as she probably wasnt going to get doc's the day I had to do the signing...I knew right then from her attitude on the phone that I had lost her...Thsi made me feel bad, as all I am doing is trying to make a living not gouge anyone, and it's business, but this broker has made me feel uncomfortable throughout this whole process, and frankly I never want
to get another call from her again.

Anyway, all is done as far as i know. Then the broker calls me screaming this morning that the lende who I talked to was P.O.d and she was P.O.d and the lender wanted an aknolwedgement
not another compliance agreement and not to let me call her again as I called her 6 times in a row!!!!!

This just ruined my day, now I have lost a broker, and there is a lender who thinks I am worthless, and when I told the broker that the lender specifically asked me for a new compliance
agreement not just an aknowledgement, the broker emailed this to the lender, the broker comes back with: "well if your notary doesnt know what an aknowledgement is then i dont know what to do except have him call someone who does, he is supposed to be the expert not me, get him to find out what an aknowledgement is and get one fed-exed to me right away.


This blew me away, I am sitting in my office reeling from these attacks....Here I took an incredibly tough assignment on discount as a favor one day...the next day I am blacklisted and shunned to even call the Lender to clarify......

So I bite my tounge and ask the broker to contact the lender one last time...do you need anything written down on the acknowledgement...what wording...or just a loose leaf certificate
signed and stamped...just out of courtesy and to make absolutely certain that we closed this matter once and for all.

She comes back blasting away at me and basically letting the broker know that i am not worthy to breathe the air around us let alone do anything for them again.

I say: "Ok, I'll send you an aknowledgement , merry christmas"


Done. Now I have spent the past four hours wondering if I made the right career path, I studied hard, I have had many good signings that were pretty standard-get the doc's print them...sign them...fed-ex them, and no problems...but this whole mess made me feel like I should go do something else with my life...and to be perfectly honest...i dont think I should shoulder all this balme...and I think I have been treated rather raw. I am debating calling the broker and cancelling my invoice and passing that along to the lender, just to get shut of these people and
I never want to hear their names or their company names again.


Just a basic nightmare...that spiralled out of control from the beginning and just never stopped crashing and burning...i dont need advice here...just venting.....



Merry Christmas


Regards

William R. Soronen

Reply by Brenda Stone on 12/21/04 4:47pm
Msg #14264

(1) It's only words...They *might* kill you...but, it is doubtful. You might lose a little business, but it is part of this group...might not be a problem, but a blessing.

(2) Don't take it personal...this is normal for people who don't get their way and have learned to be bullies. Sticks and stones!

(3) I'd offer to pay them to send the compliance agreement to me before I'd send them an acknowledgment loose. But, if you already have, you have. Not much you can do about it now. Just learn from the experience.

(4) Accept constructive criticism, and learn from it; BUT, be like teflon where verbal abuse comes in...don't let any beratings stick to you. I had one nut job berate me for ten minutes and, finally, when he ran out of gas, I said "Look, obviously you have some difficulties in paying my invoice. So...if I say 'Don't pay me.' and 'I am a BAD, BAD notary!' can we end this timewaster of a telephone call???"

He huffed and puffed some more and I finally disconnected the call. It was wasting my time; and, he was a true loony tune... but he paid me.

(5) I have talked to lawyers who do signings who are insulted by the instructions, etc. You have to look at this stuff objectively - don't take it personal. Do the job, do it right and smile when the check comes in...If you are losing a client, blow it off, find new clients and move on.

I am so sorry for this rotten experience you had. YOU, too, have a very Merry Christmas, William.

Brenda

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/21/04 4:57pm
Msg #14265

Wow, what a mess.

A couple of observations:

1. You stated that the broker decided to negotiate your fee for you prior to contact you. She didn't. She negotiated a fair fee with the borrower and then offered you the work at that fee. You didn't have to accept the work.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the borrower to expect a reduction in the notary fees on 3 loans that are being signed all in one sitting. I understand why you took the job, it had the potential to be really lucrative for you in the future. And you weren't doing it as a "favor" to the new broker, you were doing it in the hopes of impressing them and getting a lot more business later. But you can't act like you were screwed on your fees since that was all clear to you the moment you accepted the assignment.

The moral of the story that we should all remember is that ANY signing we do has the potential to turn into a disaster like this, and we should be aware of that when we're quoting a fee.

2. The compliance agreement/acknowledgement issue. You quoted the lender as initially saying" please send me an aknowledgement for this form which the borrower signed but you didnt notarize" before she said to send another compliance form. While it sounds like she certainly wasn't very clear to you, as a signing agent it should have been fairly obvious to you that a loose acknowledgement was needed.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it sounds like you notarized an unsigned document and sent it to them. Quite illegal on your part. As a notary(not signing agent) there is no excuse for this, you should know better.

Quite honestly, I'm not even sure how legal it would be to have sent a loose acknowledgment form to the lender. Can we notarize "after the fact" like that if we completely miss the document? While I can certainly see how driving back out to the borrower to have her resign the compliance agreement would not be an appealing option to you, it very well might have been the only way to legally correct this mistake.

Ultimately I'd have to put the blame for this one squarely on your shoulders. You're the one who made the mistake and didn't notarize the document, not the lender. You're also the one responsible for knowing California notary law, not the lender.

So I guess the other moral of the story is: When you accept a job, keep in mind that you might have to drive back out to the borrwer to correct a mistake if you make one. If you don't want to make another 100 mile trip, you better make damn sure everything is right before you leave the borrower's house.

Anyway, sorry you had to go through all of this. This job definitely has moments that bite the big one.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 12/21/04 6:50pm
Msg #14279

I totally agree with CaliNotary. Welcome to the school of hard knocks - and the signing agent business! As for the additional documents that were sent to you last minute, that's something to expect from time to time and anticipate. Most of the docs in a pkg generally come from the lender but other docs (e.g. HUD1) are prepared by escrow. When it is a last minute situation, problems like you ran into are not uncommon, unfortunately, and it is up to us to manage these issues. You might have been better served if you'd asked more questions in the beginning, rather than being so eager to say "Sure". You'll have fewer problems if you get your terms straight up front. You'll get better at this as you acquire more experience.

As for the Compliance Agreement that wasn't notarized properly, I would NEVER EVER send a loose acknowledgement unattched from the original document. First step is to have them fax it to you to be sure you made a mistake. If you did, have them overnight the original document so you can fix the notarization - and if necessary and possible - go back to the borrower and overnight it back at your own expense. In your situation, with that kind of driving distance, I'd probably offer to pay the overnight expenses and cost for them to go to another notary to get it notarized correctly (and not have them send the original to me). The last bit is hypthetical, since I've fortunately never had to face that situation. (I have had my share of other "learning experiences", though! Just chalk it up to paying dues and the learning curve...)

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/21/04 5:18pm
Msg #14269

Yep... hear ya'... what you need to learn from this terrible experience:
1. Nobody but you negotiates your fees. You accepted the stated fee--but you still needed to tell the broker loud & clear that this is not acceptable in the future.
2. Personally, I think you did this waaay too cheap...3 sets of edocs & 3 hr. 1 way drive (did I get that right?)
3. If you get nothing else out of this post, please hear this: There is NO loyalty, respect nor any other warm, fuzzy feelings in this business. Your 'doing a favor' will get you nowhere.
I think you did your very best (yeah, a mistake on the compliance/acknowledgement issue...hope you learned) and nobody out there cares about that. They really don't. All that matters to them is 'there was a problem and it's your fault' (even if it wasn't).
4. Do not obsess on this... learn the lesson & move on... smarter, wiser and more in control for the 'next time'... and yes, there will be a next time.

Reply by Robin/AR on 12/22/04 9:47am
Msg #14317

Hey Lee!

I am new in the business and live in Arkansas. What tips can you give me on getting some work?

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/22/04 2:46pm
Msg #14338

Where are you? (nm)

Reply by Robin/AR on 12/22/04 9:35pm
Msg #14380

Re: Where are you? (nm)

I am in Fayetteville.

Reply by Elizabeth Atwood on 12/22/04 2:01am
Msg #14300

You will overcome this and don't be scared by the others they are stupid too. At least you are honest. What happened to you is learning process and no one was hurt.

Reply by Cassie- OC-Cali on 12/22/04 5:01am
Msg #14303

Hey William - I have been through virtually identical situations (thank goodness - out of 1000 signings - only a few). You bend over backwards to provide excellent service - you even give a discount - things go haywire through no fault of your own. And then - you get blamed no matter the extent you go to in order to please everybody.

I have come to the understanding that most (and I emphasize most) people in this business that are not actually doing what we do have absolutely NO CLUE what is entailed in our job. In fact - my favorite signing services are people who have done exactly what we do; and, therefore are much more reasonable, compassionate, and appreciative.
Just as you described there are often hours spent pulling detailed items together under short notice from various sources, last minute emails and faxes,circumstances beyond our control, etc....

My encouragement to you would be this:
#1) Don't Give UP! You sound like you do excellent work - you are thorough, professional, courteous, organized, flexible, etc...
This broker that , for lack of a better phrase, "used and abused" you, will burn many bridges treating people that way. What goes around comes around. I am sure you are not the first nor the last she has treated this way.
#2) Don't sell yourself short. I think you discounted your rates too much (at the outset) considering all that was entailed. Perhaps another way to approach it would be to advise the next person that asks you to do something similar that the job is going to be priced as "XYZ"; however, "in the event that additional work or time, etc... is required you will have to charge accordingly".
I think this is perfectly reasonable!!!!
#3) Continue to market yourself to other local brokers, etc... and chalk this experience up to "experience" - plain and simple.
#4) Do Not Cancel Your Invoice - You did the job - You deserve payment.
#5) I see absolutely nothing wrong in composing a polite (but firm) letter to this broker stating your reasons why you will not work with her again. I think she used you as a scapegoat and you should stand up for yourself. I think you will feel good about that as well!!!

Sorry for the long post; and please forgive my imperfect grammar. This one provoked a lot of thought on my part as I have been in your shoes and have learned some things from bad experiences. Don't let this one bad experience color your view of this business and your chances of success.

Have a Very Merry Christmas and a Fabulous 2005!

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/22/04 5:17pm
Msg #14350

Cassie, you may want to read the post again. You state "things go haywire through no fault of your own" but in this case William definitely shares some of the blame. A lot of the hassle he went through was because of a page that he forgot to notarize. An innocent mistake, these things happen, but his fault nonetheless.

Reply by BrendaKhan on 12/22/04 10:35am
Msg #14323

First of all let me say I can relate to your feelings of doubt as to whether you chose the correct business to be in. I too had a similiar experience with a SS company and I asked myself the same question.

Just remember this is a business and you are the owner. You will have great clients and horrible clients but you can choose whom you serve or not serve and at your prices and terms. You are the boss not them!

Everyone makes mistakes no matter what circumstances happened before, prior or after the mistake was made, but to be honest and do the best in your ability to correct a mistake is what seperates a good business person from the temporary business people.

Learn from the mistakes and bad choices you make and you will be the best you can be.

You have a Great Holiday and try to relax. BK-FL

Reply by Arthur on 12/22/04 11:28am
Msg #14326

Don't beat yourself up over this one. I agree w/ others about setting your own fees. You don't set the broker's fees; she should not be "negotiating" yours without your input. As others have also said, forget about loyalty in this business. Just do the best job you can and move on.

Wishing you a safe & happy Holiday and a prosperous New Year! (For everyone)