Posted by Nicole_NCali on 12/30/04 12:30pm
Msg #15006

Non-Loan question_Advanced Orders

I have a request for a signature on Advanced Orders for an Alzheimer patient. It is an affidavit and the person is 88 years old.

The nursing home is the POA due to lack of family. Has anyone run across this before?

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 12/30/04 1:15pm
Msg #15011

This is new to me. What is "Advanced Orders"? Does the patient have to sign? Or because the Nursing Home has POA do they sign? If the patient, then he/she must be cognizant of what he/she is signing.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 12/30/04 1:34pm
Msg #15012

Apparently if the patient is w/out family, then the nursing home can be the POA and would sign the orders. Advanced orders is for elderly people who do not want to be resuscitated in case of heat attacks or whatever. Under normal conditions, any Emergency tech is required to perform CPR or life saving techniques on people, but in this case, the patient is essentially requesting that no extraordinary means be done to revive them. It really only applies to the Nursing home staff and doctor.

This is my first time in dealing with a nursing home who is the POA. I normally do these for the family who have a living will/POA.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 12/30/04 1:40pm
Msg #15015

As long as the person at the nursing home who is signing as POA has valid ID then it seems like a typical notarization act. I would think you'd need to see the POA also and have them sign as attorney-in-fact, right?

Reply by Dotti_CA on 12/30/04 1:49pm
Msg #15017

I would be very careful with this one. In personal experience due to the loss of my daughter the two documents I am familiar with are: 1) The Advanced Directive, which specifies end of life wishes and 2) the DNR, which is a 'do not resuscitate.' The Advanced Directive requires two unrelated, non beneficiary witnesses and the DNR requires signature by the patient or the person(s) legally able to sign for the patient. I would request legal direction on the fact that the nursing home is also the caretaker and the power of attorney. It may be perfectly legal, but I'd want to know that for sure. Good luck with this one.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 12/30/04 1:53pm
Msg #15018

Thanks Dottie, I knew there was more to this than was stated by the Nursing Home. I put myself out there for Adanced Orders so I am just boning up before I start getting a flood of orders. I will see if there any witnesses to the fact before I go to the signing. If not, I will have two of my friends meet me there just in case. I am also calling a probate lawyer friend for more clarification.

Reply by Dotti_CA on 12/30/04 1:58pm
Msg #15020

Nicole, I'm glad to hear you're checking further. As I said it may be perfectly legal but I don't like the way it sounds and I'd want to see it in writing from a legal authority. Have a safe, happy New Year. Dottie

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/30/04 3:44pm
Msg #15035

Agree with Dottie. Also, please post info you get frm Lawyer

Seems odd that this poor lady doesn't have ONE living relative. And the Nursing Home wants the 'say' for this poor incompetant lady? Seems awfully self-serving to me. Sorta like notarizing your own signature. PLEASE POST what your lawyer friend has to say about this topic.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 12/30/04 3:55pm
Msg #15038

Re: Agree with Dottie. Also, please post info you get frm Lawyer

I was advised that this person would not come to the Nursing Home w/out at least a Socialworker appointed by the State and this is an issue that would have to be worked out with the social worker/nursing home and is not something that I should even be called for, it is too complicated an issue for a "simple notarization". My friend is contacting a Senior Ombudsman for further clarification.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/31/04 12:48pm
Msg #15113

Re: Agree with Dottie. Also, please post info you get frm Lawyer

Nicole: Thank you for starting this thread. The Senior Ombudsman program seems to be a good thing. Keeps us updated as you learn more.

Reply by jay on 12/30/04 4:18pm
Msg #15041

Re: Agree with Dottie. Also, please post info you get frm Lawyer

Unfortunately,
There are alot of elderly people, who have no living family to assist them in their elderly years. This is not uncommon, I deal with them everyday. You would be surprised to know just how common. We are really blessed when we have family that are alive and are willing to assist us in our later years.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 12/30/04 5:19pm
Msg #15046

Re: Agree with Dottie. Also, please post info you get frm Lawyer

I know this is common but the ramifications of notarizing this document could not only affect me legally but would weigh heavily on my conscience.

Reply by Nerdyfem on 12/30/04 6:10pm
Msg #15053

Re: Non-Loan question_Advanced Orders "Competence"

Remember, that one must be "competent" and not "coerced" into signing anything. I would think if the nursing home had been the POA from the onset of this patient's admittance into the home, that it would be permissable to consider that they are the legal POA and one could notarize these Orders. JMHO

Reply by maureen/nh on 12/31/04 6:59am
Msg #15089

Re: Non-Loan question_Advanced Orders

Reply by maureen/nh on 12/31/04 7:06am
Msg #15090

I am not a lawyer and do not know CA law. Here they don't even want nursing home personel as witnesses on a diractive. Does this lady have a guardian? If so this is the person who should be making these decisions. If she doesn't have a guardian, she should have one.
I'd stay away from this one until I knew a lot more.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 12/31/04 12:47pm
Msg #15111

Hi Maureen, since this was an issue beyond my expertise, I deferred this to a probate lawyer who will made the call that this is something that I should not be involved in.