Posted by SuzyQofAL on 12/7/04 5:23pm
Msg #12908
Notary inspection form
Help me out my fellow signing agents! I closed a loan for Western Finance, Inc., in Aurora, CO. They sent a camera in the package and I was told I had to take pictures of all rooms, as well as the outside of this mobile home. I received a call from them that I failed to send back a "Notary Inspection Form." (No such form was in the package) I told Mr. Wilson to fax me one and I would complete it. Well, when I got this "inspection form" they wanted me to inspect all rooms, the floor condition, the cabinet conditions, the skirting condition, the window sill conditions, as well as it their was running water to the home.
After feeling VERY uneasy about signing this form, as I do not offer an inspection service, I called the NNA as well as the ASN, and they also felt that this inspection was not part of my notary signing duties, and suggested that I do not sign it. So, I called the guy back and told him this was not part of what a signing agent does and that I would not sign and complete this inspection form, he was VERY rude. He told me that I was not going to get paid and he was now going to have to find another notary to inspect the mobile home.
I wandered if any of you have run into this situation.
| Reply by cqrodriguez on 12/7/04 5:27pm
Msg #12912
I have never ran into a problem like this. I think they should hire someone that does appraisals. There the ones that take pictures and do all of those things. weird I have never been in something like that.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 12/7/04 5:57pm
Msg #12920
Suzy,
I have been contacted about doing these, but my fee was too high. Good for the NNA and the ASN for backing you up on this.
However, did the confirmation state this would be part of the job? Just curious...
Brenda
| Reply by HisHughness on 12/7/04 6:26pm
Msg #12921
I've done those. They're not asking for notarial expertise or signing agent expertise. They simply want a layman's verification that everything is as it should be: All the rooms claimed are there, all have the resquisite number of walls, all have the allotted proportion of ceiling, etc. No big deal. Just set your fee to accomodate the inspection.
| Reply by SuzyQofAL on 12/7/04 7:48pm
Msg #12941
No, the confirmation, which I had to ask twice for shows a fee for notarizing the loan papers. I did the pictures as a courtesy, I didn't even agree to that when I was called about handling the closing. These people are real jerks. Thanks everyone for your input.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 12/7/04 9:50pm
Msg #12950
Thanks for the warning!
| Reply by ZaraL319 on 12/7/04 7:22pm
Msg #12932
I am a new Notary, however, reading a book by Victoria Ring on "a Freelance Notary Signing Agent," she stated that "Home Inspections" are a specific job in which the Notary ONLY takes pictures. She mentions a site, http://www.mortgageramp.com/ for just this. In other words, it's definitely NOT within the scope of an NSA's job. You should tell that to Western Finance and tell them they are mistaken, and if they refuse to pay you for the NSA portion of the job, you'll see him in Small Claims Court.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 12/8/04 1:45am
Msg #12971
Victoria Ring is ok by me.
This is from my personal experience, and what I have learned in my dealings with her over the past year. I admire her drive and determination, and I admire her for what she has personally achieved. More of us should be so driven.
Further, I have found her publications to be helpful to new NSAs. I believe she means well toward notaries in general, and does a good job of sharing with others her methods of creating a profitable business for herself. That's what we all strive for: being THE boss.
But, some say that her publications have wrong information in them. I cannot recall having heard exactly what those items are-- I do not dispute them, but I do wish I had more specifics. However, VR did a pretty good job, in my estimation, of giving an aspiring NSA a good overview of the job in her book.
The reason I am saying this is to convey that it's possible as a result of your post, V Ring's publication will be criticized and you may feel picked upon--but don't take personal offense to it. I got the same heat. Some people don't like English Peas, and some folks don't like to see the name "Victoria Ring."
Victoria's shared a lot of basic knowledge that has helped many signing agents get started. (As a result of reading V's book, I personally benefit from MortgageRamp.com inspections. Just my jobs with them have more than paid for her book 50 times - so, VR's ok in my book!)
But, notice that I say "basic." She gave a very good overview in the book you mention. As I am sure Victoria would agree, and has disclaimed/stated, her book should not be taken as the last word and authority about our jobs as NSAs.
I don't have my book handy, but I genuinely believe that V Ring, and the disclaimers in her book, would agree with my opinion that we should not take her statements on signings, or home inspections, or other types of assignments as an authority of what would be within our scope of responsibility.
Keep reading the boards and their archives--especially in this one-- and you will find yourself more enlightened each day to the unlimited possibilities that shape the "scope" of our job--some expected, and some unexpected.
The great part of being independent agents is we can narrow our scope sharply when we are not comfortable performing something required.
Each of us must set our own policies and determine the "scope" by our own choices. In a general sense there are certain things expected of us in our assignments as NSAs. However, it's up to us individually as we contract with companies to determine whether or not we will narrow or widen our scope to include their demands.
Our own personal values and beliefs monitor what we will, and will not, do in any given assignment. What we don't believe is within our expertise, or within the guidelines of our rules as notaries, is what we are each personally limited by.
As I am sure Victoria would agree, every person working as an independent contractor in a field--NSA, or otherwise, MUST do their own research of certifications and/or licensings required. They MUST make their own decisions and judgment calls in the field when there are no alternatives but to make a call based on one's own interpretations of right/wrong. Research and self-education are the key to having the right information in your personal knowledge base to make those calls.
What is done in one state is not the same in another state -- I think they still call it "federalism." Each state governs itself, and to some extent, so does each locality. Local laws are the laws that we must be bound to.
What is said here, or in any publication regarding any industry must be taken with a grain of salt and covered with a layer of good old common sense.
What is said here, or in NSA publications, should bring to mind questions that direct you to find definitive answers--never take anything at face value.
Always do your research. The only true authority you have as a notary is your SOS and your state and local laws.
| Reply by ZARAL319 on 12/8/04 5:12pm
Msg #13039
Hi BrendaTX,
Thank you so very much for taking the time to respond so explicitly and comprehensively to my post as a novice in this industry. I especially appreciate the caveat mentioning Ms. Ring's book and the potential reaction. No one has achieved absolute perfection in this life, but I have to say that reading it has given me a lot more knowledge about the work of NSA's than I had before, and am appreciative of her contribution and necessary steps, such as websites, etc.
I recognize, as you suggest, doing as much research on a new profession as possible and am anticipating finding a mentor in the Los Angeles area with whom I can observe doing a signing.
Too bad you're in Texas. Saw your profile/listing and am impressed by your professionalism.
Thanks again.
| Reply by HisHughness on 12/8/04 5:22pm
Msg #13040
Zaral319 (I'm sorry, but that cracks me up. Sounds like the name of an android from a B movie. No offense intended) bemoans:
***Too bad you're in Texas.***
That is a sentiment many of us Texans share.
Just kidding. We love Brenda down here. She has a lot of expertise on IP numbers and blanks you may wish to correspond with her about by e-mail.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 12/8/04 7:27pm
Msg #13051
You are welcome, sometimes--no usually--I am too explicit and use too many words, but I have learned that if I don't try to cover all the bases with what I am saying, that I might leave something out that will lead another astray.
Case in point is the no no list situation. I know that I gave an impression somewhere that I did not mean to give, and now it's become a misconception that I have a no no list that I publish--and I don't.
Thank you for the kind words.
Brenda
| Reply by Maureen/nh on 12/8/04 7:32am
Msg #12972
SuzyQ, How long did it take you to this signing and inspection? I'd appreciate the info, so that if I ever do get a call, I'll know how much to charge.
| Reply by SuzyQofAL on 12/8/04 8:33am
Msg #12982
After talking to the NNA and ASN, I felt it was in my best interest NOT to take on the liability of doing the inspection. After all, what if they use this information that I signed to, and this man defaults on the loan? What kind of liability would I be dealing with then? It is just not worth it to me. Let them find someone else to inspect it and take the liability.
| Reply by Paul_IL on 12/8/04 4:48pm
Msg #13037
There is no liability for doing field inpections. Just a short report with a room count and general condition, no special training is necessary to do this. With the photos you can add another $30-50 for the inspection, amount depends on area. Why would you take what NNA & ASN have to say about a non notary related activity? Instead got to www.SOFI.com for information on field inspections
| Reply by Mortgage Closers of San Antonio - Kenneth C Whitton Jr on 12/8/04 8:56pm
Msg #13060
There are people in this world that conduct these inspections for a living, they are called HOME INSPECTORS. These companies are attempting to get you to do something that is outside your scope of practice. I am REALTOR, I am not able to conduct a home inspection, I must have a home inspector do such a job. These individuals are licensed and monitored by the state, in Texas the Texas Real Estate Commission licenses these individuals.
The companies that are asking this of a notary are placing themselves and the notary at risk for legal problems later. I am NOT an attorney, but according to my training and extensive education, one should NEVER do something for which one has not been trained. Let's say, for instance, that you sign off on something, maybe the skirting condition. Looking from the front of the home, the skirting looks fine... but if you look underneath one edge, you might find termite damage or something of that nature. If you failed to report that, you could potentially be sued since you signed off on that inspection.
I personally would not feel comfortable signing anything like that. I have had people inquire about having pictures taken of the outside of a home, from a non-invasive point outside the boundary of the property. I do not mind doing this for companies, and usually will do this as a courtesy to the company.
As a REALTOR, I do what are referred to as BPOs, broker price opinions, in which I take pictures of the exterior of a home, and conduct a CMA, comparative market analysis, on that specific home and give my opinion as to the potential value or selling price of a home. This is something I do everyday in the position of a REALTOR. It is my job, my specialty, to give an opinion as to the value and potential selling price of a home...
Well, anyway...
| Reply by HisHughness on 12/8/04 10:40pm
Msg #13075
The homes which signing agents are asked to inspect are typically mobile homes, and the loans for which the signing agent has been asked to visually inspect the property probably are loans on personal property, not real property.
Again, the lenders are not asking for a termite certificate, or an engineering validation of construction soundness. They want to know there are not holes where the kitchen sink and the bathroom toilet should be, that you can't see the sky through the ceiling, and that the floor did not cave in under you before you left.
You are the lender's eyes on the site. If they thought an engineer's eyes were necessary, they would hire an engineer. They just want to know that all the cows they bought are indeed in the barn. Or the feedlot. Or the meat locker.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 12/9/04 1:51am
Msg #13087
Here's a scary thought...
Tomorrow, I will put on my steel toed boots and go inspect a packing facility which is located in a property owned by a major commercial lender.
Part of the assignment will also be to submit a general idea of who the major competitors are for the site's tenant, the growth trend of the area, and I will report my opinion of whether or not certain things are in place as they should be upon visual inspection (i.e, sprinkers, air conditioning, fire extinguishers).
I will take pictures to support my visual inspection report and sign off as an "unlicensed inspector."
To be able to do this, I completed online training.
| Reply by Paul_IL on 12/9/04 9:29pm
Msg #13181
You are totally incorrect in your posting. What they are being asked to do is a Field Inspection which is no way related to Home Inspection. A field inspector is paid to verify the property( number of rooms, visual condition only) sometimes a short one page report is included where the person conducting the inpection will note what they Observed and photos of the property are included. This is in no way a home inspection and there is no liability for any unseen or hidden defects. Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you go spreading false information
| Reply by Gregg Amicon on 1/7/05 12:59am
Msg #15671
Suzy,
Based on the responses I've read you really hit a nerve with this question, so I thought I'd share my experience with Western.
I did a mobile home closing in November, still haven't been paid. So when I called they said I didn't fill out the inspection. It wasn't in the package, so I was very annoyed to now learn it was a condition of payment.
When I got the form, I had all the trepidation that some others have about liability and separation of duties and qualifications, etc.
My response was to fill out the form and send along a letter of explanation / disclaimer that I kept on file with my closing paperwork. The key points were:
1. I was filling out the form 6 weeks after the visit because it wasn't available at closing
2. I have no training to 'inspect' and I wasn't hired to 'inspect.' I characterized the report as nothing more than relaying my recollection of the condition and included nothing beyond what I could see with my own eyes, AND I wan't looking very closely
3. Although the report was mentioned in the list of things to do at the closing, there was no form in the package, and I reported that to them with the return of the docs
My biggest concern with this is that it's a stalling tactic in payment. I went thru this with a well-known deadbeat in Arizona. This is the last hoop I'm jumping thru for this closing to get paid.
I'm not an attorney, but if I get pulled in to testify as to my observations about the condition of this mobile home, I have a document that negates the value of the dcoument I signed by virtue of my telling the recipient that I'm unqualified and filled out the form 6 weeks after the visit, so the input would be made worthless by a decent attorney.
Regarding the NNA, I agree with one who posted that they are not qualified to give an opinion. Further, they will always give the most, most conservative interpretation of the letter of the law.
That is why I put their trust in them regarding notarizations. The ability to notarize IS the key that allows us to perform these services. So I walk a tight line regarding what I will and will not do, because a misstep there puts the ability to work in jeopardy.
The picture/observation thing has nothing to do with notarization, they didn't ask us to notarize the observations, so it's a secondary issue to me.........unless they make it a payment issue.
Sorry to ramble.
Gregg
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