Posted by Jennifer on 12/20/04 3:52pm
Msg #14189

Saddest signing ever

I dearly hope that this appointment was the most tragic of my career.

The loan officer who gave me the assignment had warned that the couple did not speak English very well so I should prepare to be patient. The husband used gestures to graciously show me into their home and my place at the family dining table. He told me he would sign the 75+ pages of documents first and then his wife would come in to sign. He did his part then went to the kitchen to tell his wife it was her turn to sign.

A loud and vehement argument immediately ensued. I didn't understand a word. The man came back. The wife wouldn't sign today. Perhaps tomorrow. Could I come back? I said I would have to check with the lender. He went to the kitchen and had another argument with his wife. The wife came to me, very angry, and asked to see the papers. The husband made himself scarce. I showed her the loan documents. Her English was limited so she called out to her teenage daughter (a lovely girl with skin like young peaches) to translate.

After much conversation, it became apparent that the husband had secured the house refinance loan without consulting his wife. The loan paid off several credit cards and had a sizeable amount of cash to be sent to the borrowers when the loan closed. The wife wept as she told me (through her daughter) that her husband had a severe gambling addiction. He had run through over $50,000 in the last five years. He had refinanced their small house three times. He sold the family car and television to get cash for the casinos. He obtained cash advances on the credit cards and gambled it away. Tears ran down the daughter's face as she translated to me. The mother reported that her sisters had told her to divorce her husband. She wanted to divorce him, but she wanted her children to have a husband. It was clear to me that they would lose the house within the next few years.

The women were acutely distressed. I was very angry and very careful not to show it. I wrote the name and phone number of a local government legal help agency focusing on families in trouble. I told her they could give her advice. I wrote down what the daughter should say at the beginning of the call: "My mother needs to speak to someone who can speak Korean. My father has a severe gambling addiction and we need help, please." I made it clear that I was not an attorney and could not advise her. I gave them the name and phone number of a local paralegal who could write divorce papers for her, should that be her decision. I only gave her resources from which she could get advice.

What I did NOT tell them was that the best thing for the family would be for the husband to die. If the husband died, the children would get Social Security survivor benefits. Those payments would cover the house payments so the family would not lose their home. This disgusting husband/father was the Shadow Figure of Jimmy Stewart's character in "It's a Wonderful Life."

That night I dreamed I ran over this vile man with my car.

Reply by Stephanie/CA on 12/20/04 4:38pm
Msg #14193

Jennifer:

While the signing was an extremely sad situation for the wife and daughter, it seems as though you did, in fact, give them a resource to help out.

I would like to comment on the way you articulated the event.
I think you should do some writing on the side. Iwas completely taken by your writing abilities.

I hope all works out for this family, including the husband/father.

Reply by BrendaTX on 12/20/04 5:16pm
Msg #14197

Stephanie Said: "I would like to comment on the way you articulated the event.
I think you should do some writing on the side. Iwas completely taken by your writing abilities."

I agree. You painted a very intense and compelling drama...only, it was real life.

Thanks for writing it. I can only imagine how hard it was to BE in it.

Reply by Lawrence Goodwin on 12/21/04 9:19am
Msg #14231

The best recourse you could have legally given this family was to gather up the docs and walk out. You do not speak Koren, so you have no idea what was said in that kitchen. That husband could have uttered intentions of injury or punishment against his wife. She was clearly signing under duress.

Reply by Terri - CA on 12/21/04 10:21am
Msg #14234

My take is that the husband signed but the wife did not. But you're right, even if the husband did sign, I would not have signed the wife, as it was painfully obvious that she would have been signing under duress.

My real concern is that Jennifer wished harm/death towards another human being. :(

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by Jennifer on 12/21/04 2:46pm
Msg #14258

I had put the loan papers in my briefcase to leave when the wife came in and demanded to see them. I wanted nothing to do with that loan. But she saw that the fixed interest rate was good and the high-interest credit cards would be paid off. She plans to cancel all the credit cards as soon as they are paid. If she can protect the house from any more loans, this will be a very good final loan for her.

The wife spoke some English - enough to know what she was signing. The daughter helped us enormously by translating some of the more difficult concepts.

By my alerting the loan officer to the man's gambling problem, the LO was able to head off the husband getting the cash out money. It goes right back into the loan to pay down the principal.

By giving the wife the resources for legal advice, I am hoping she finds tools to get all family assets out of the hands of that terrible man.

What kind of Barbie world do you live in? Of course there are people who should die and thereby make the world a better place. From spouse cheaters to child molesters to international terrorists. This guy's name deserves to be on that list.

If this man were a man instead of a beast, he would either stop his gambling or kill himself for the sake of his children. I am against the death penalty because I think only God and the individual has the right to decide who dies. A car accident would be the best thing for this family.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 12/21/04 4:27pm
Msg #14263

I'm with Terri! Wishing someone dead, however rotten, gives me the chills... But from a notarial perspective, my concern about signing the wife is the dependence on a translator for your communication with her. In California, that is specifically prohibited. We are required to be able to converse directly with anyone whose signature we notarize.

Having said all that, the woman may be mcuh better off for the referrals you gave her. Referring the husband to Gamblers Anonymous (if he would consider it), or giving the wife information about it, at least, might have also been a worthwhile gesture - and more productive than wishing him dead...

Reply by HisHughness on 12/21/04 6:36pm
Msg #14275

Last time I checked, frittering away the family fortune -- one that you built yourself, incidentally, though that is of no moment here -- did not carry a death penalty.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/21/04 6:43pm
Msg #14278

Jennifer pontificated:

***What kind of Barbie world do you live in? Of course there are people who should die and thereby make the world a better place. From spouse cheaters to child molesters to international terrorists. This guy's name deserves to be on that list. ***

WOW! I posted my earlier comment before reading the above. Now I find we are going to lethally inject women and men who philander? Or aare we going to burn them at the stake? What shall we do with married men who only go as far as fondling a willing partner? Maybe castrate him? How about a woman who does the same thing? Surgically seal her off so there will be no possibility she could wander?

The world of moral absolutes -- and absolutists -- sure can get scary sometimes.

Reply by JanetK/CA on 12/23/04 3:19am
Msg #14401

"The world of moral absolutes -- and absolutists -- sure can get scary sometimes."

I couldn't agree more!!! (After all, isn't that at the core of all the problems in the middle east, and the motivation for the majority of terrorism!!??)

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/21/04 5:27pm
Msg #14270

Sorry to disagree with you well-meaning folks, but Jennifer has it right. As they say here in AR, "he deserved killing". And before you write if off to 'redneck thinking'... I'm from Chicago!
And obviously not a liberal. People need to be held accountable for the things they do. Even near Christmas.

Reply by Terri - CA on 12/21/04 6:37pm
Msg #14276

Actually, I'm for the death penalty. I believe Scott Peterson deserved it. However, the man in question has a gambling problem, and argued with his wife. Is he a wife beater? Child Beater/molester? Not that I could tell from Jennifer's post only that he has an addiction, that has caused difficulties in his marriage due to money problems and caused his inability to adequately provide monetarily for his children. Does he deserve to be put to death? I don't think so, I think that compassion should have been shown to all parties. Could have suggested family counseling or gamblers anonymous to the wife (however, that is beyond our contracted scope of work).

FYI - In California, a translator cannot be used AT ALL! Even to "help" explain the documents, especially those that are to be notarized.

Terri
Lancaster, CA

Reply by sue on 12/21/04 9:43pm
Msg #14288

and maybe the wife was a whiner who totally made up the story. None of these issues are our business nor should we ever allow borrowers to go into this much detail with us. We should NEVER offer the resources this ntary offered to this woman. We are there to get loan documents signed and notarized, not play social worker.

Reply by Charm_AL on 12/22/04 8:34am
Msg #14315

Lee from Chicago

LEE...

do you live in Chandler?